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  #37  
Old November 25th, 2018, 01:55 PM
Heroscaper 101 Heroscaper 101 is offline
 
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Re: An Impactful Customs Creator

I do hope my customs thread helped out.
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  #38  
Old November 25th, 2018, 06:46 PM
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Re: An Impactful Customs Creator

I think it's instructive, LC, how your posts are building on each other. If you play the game against other people, for instance, over a period of time, then you will be better able to discern why the unit you are creating should exist. These are important steps, and they proceed in a certain order.

Another excellent post, LC. Thank you for taking the time to distill what you've learned as a skilled and experienced designer into such practical tips.

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  #39  
Old November 25th, 2018, 06:49 PM
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Re: An Impactful Customs Creator

It's great to see you around this forum again LC, and this series of posts is a great read. D_S's point as to the natural progression really sums up why the series resonates. I'm excited for the next installment.
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  #40  
Old November 25th, 2018, 07:38 PM
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Re: An Impactful Customs Creator

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper View Post
I think it's instructive, LC, how your posts are building on each other. If you play the game against other people, for instance, over a period of time, then you will be better able to discern why the unit you are creating should exist. These are important steps, and they proceed in a certain order.

Another excellent post, LC. Thank you for taking the time to distill what you've learned as a skilled and experienced designer into such practical tips.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Son of Arathorn View Post
It's great to see you around this forum again LC, and this series of posts is a great read. D_S's point as to the natural progression really sums up why the series resonates. I'm excited for the next installment.
Thanks guys! I wasn't sure if the progressive order of the posts would actually be noticed so it is encouraging to know my plans on that weren't in vain.

It has been great being back and "seeing" familiar faces and new ones to show that this community and the game it circles around is far from dead!
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  #41  
Old November 25th, 2018, 07:45 PM
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Re: An Impactful Customs Creator

Love the new installments of your OP. A good read. I think some folks out there really need those tips. I agree wholeheartedly with the why portion.
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  #42  
Old November 25th, 2018, 07:52 PM
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Re: An Impactful Customs Creator

Thank you for the kind words, TREX!
I added links to all of @Scytale 's great HS Codex articles on customs creating. Well worth the read!
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  #43  
Old November 26th, 2018, 10:10 AM
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Re: An Impactful Customs Creator

Really good read, chap. I especially agree with the Why? portion - without passion or a reason to exist, whether it's thematic, mechanical or whatever, a card is doomed to fail. I'll admit to having been frustrated before about how SoV seems to be the be all and end all for a lot of people now - I even recall someone criticising Dr.Goomonkey's contests for not contributing new canon units to the community, saying that there was no point to them because of this, and I've lost count of the number of units that seem to have been created from the ground up for the purpose of getting into SoV, most of which never get there.


My Family's Classic Customs
- Suicidium Scourge
=====================
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  #44  
Old November 26th, 2018, 10:56 AM
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Re: An Impactful Customs Creator

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazy Orang View Post
Really good read, chap. I especially agree with the Why? portion - without passion or a reason to exist, whether it's thematic, mechanical or whatever, a card is doomed to fail.
Yep- and this goes for any creative endeavor. The best work (not just qualitatively, but the work you, the creator, feel best about) comes from a specific inspiration, not from grinding.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazy Orang View Post
I'll admit to having been frustrated before about how SoV seems to be the be all and end all for a lot of people now - I even recall someone criticising Dr.Goomonkey's contests for not contributing new canon units to the community, saying that there was no point to them because of this, and I've lost count of the number of units that seem to have been created from the ground up for the purpose of getting into SoV, most of which never get there.
It's something I've noticed as well, and it's silly. There was an entire community of customs creators operating before the SoV (and parallel to other projects like the Halls of Valhalla) who never gave a thought to having their work minted by their peers. This recent attitude (and by recent I mean within the last handful of years) isn't the fault of the SoV; it's a great project with dedicated members that uses rigorous methods to allow individual creators great influence on the game and meta-game.
It's up to individuals to take their blinders off- whether those blinders are due to a desire for reputation, validation, or just never having considered that people have made customs since the game was published because they were some combination of fun, unique, or compelling.
Stuff like Dr. G's contests have been around in some form or another forever- and they're a great way to see how a group of creators tackles a single prompt (something the Fan Fic subforum could tell us customeers is rewarding in and of itself).
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  #45  
Old November 26th, 2018, 11:37 AM
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Re: An Impactful Customs Creator

I agree that SoV should not be the sole focus for custom design (and it feels like it has become that way in much of the community), but for some, that can very well be the "why" behind the unit.

For example, if I have fond childhood memories of Dünd and my local scene only allows classic and VC releases, then I could find inspiration in trying to create a new way to play him in a semi-competitive format. Now, the individual quality of such a design would obviously vary quite a bit, but it's still possible to make something great with a goal like that. Everyone finds inspiration in different ways, and for some, creating a "canon" unit is part of the end goal.

I think that the current overabundance of designing for SoV is leading to more pushback against the idea. It's true that designing solely for SoV isn't a great idea (I think that personal pride and satisfaction in the design is far more important), but there's nothing inherently wrong with taking that as the inspiration. Of course, that's assuming that it's truly inspiring to the creator and they aren't just looking for others' approval.
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  #46  
Old November 26th, 2018, 12:00 PM
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Re: An Impactful Customs Creator

Quote:
Originally Posted by Astroking112 View Post
I agree that SoV should not be the sole focus for custom design (and it feels like it has become that way in much of the community), but for some, that can very well be the "why" behind the unit.

For example, if I have fond childhood memories of Dünd and my local scene only allows classic and VC releases, then I could find inspiration in trying to create a new way to play him in a semi-competitive format. Now, the individual quality of such a design would obviously vary quite a bit, but it's still possible to make something great with a goal like that. Everyone finds inspiration in different ways, and for some, creating a "canon" unit is part of the end goal.

I think that the current overabundance of designing for SoV is leading to more pushback against the idea. It's true that designing solely for SoV isn't a great idea (I think that personal pride and satisfaction in the design is far more important), but there's nothing inherently wrong with taking that as the inspiration. Of course, that's assuming that it's truly inspiring to the creator and they aren't just looking for others' approval.
Now, that feels different to me - you'd be designing a unit to help Dund for the purpose of helping Dund - that's the 'Why?', SoV is almost incidental. (It's also a 'Why' I can absolutely get behind, I've long toyed with the idea of a Doggin squad to bond with Large Hunters - Dund, Feral Troll and Master of the Hunt could all use the help, if only I could find a figure.) I just think that a lot of people seem to be more focused on appeasing SoV judges than achieving a design they're happy with, and that personal customs seem to have become less valued with 'accepted' custom communities out there. I think that valued personal customs are something we could do with more of - a unit doesn't need to be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed and numbered (sorry, been watching a lot of The Prisoner lately) to be worth note.


My Family's Classic Customs
- Suicidium Scourge
=====================
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  #47  
Old November 26th, 2018, 12:39 PM
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Re: An Impactful Customs Creator

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazy Orang View Post
Now, that feels different to me - you'd be designing a unit to help Dund for the purpose of helping Dund - that's the 'Why?', SoV is almost incidental. (It's also a 'Why' I can absolutely get behind, I've long toyed with the idea of a Doggin squad to bond with Large Hunters - Dund, Feral Troll and Master of the Hunt could all use the help, if only I could find a figure.) I just think that a lot of people seem to be more focused on appeasing SoV judges than achieving a design they're happy with, and that personal customs seem to have become less valued with 'accepted' custom communities out there. I think that valued personal customs are something we could do with more of - a unit doesn't need to be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed and numbered (sorry, been watching a lot of The Prisoner lately) to be worth note.
I guess that it would be fair to call it a "how" rather than a "why." If you look at it from that angle, then it's still an integral part of the design process (since in that example, the unit has to be acceptable to SoV to fulfill its purpose), but it isn't the inspiration.

Personal customs being valued less is definitely a shame. I have fun looking through everyone's random designs (and making my own for things that I'm a fan of), but that's naturally bound to happen when a subset of customs can become "official." The line between designers and fans has disappeared, and we're now seeing normal playtesting for potential "official" units in the same forum as customs that have no intention of ever entering the canon. They're two very different goals and mindsets, and I think that both are equally valid.

On an unrelated note, now I want that Doggin squad to exist, too.
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  #48  
Old November 26th, 2018, 01:39 PM
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Re: An Impactful Customs Creator

I can’t speak for everyone obviously, but I understand the pain of designing a unit, spending time palytesting it, puting it up, and realizing you’re the only one who’ll ever actually use it.

I think a big element of the “official-ness” of the SoV, C3V, C3G, and HoSS cards, for me, is the ability to easily print them out in the right size in PDF format. That’s something that has always meant more to me than the “brand name” a custom is made under. I’m more likely to print and use anybody’s customs if I can get them to be the same size as my official cards. (I think TREX does PDFs too?) Is that a sentiment shared by others?

LO, I love the Prisoner! It is pretty underrated (at least here in the States) for how good of a show it is.
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