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  #37  
Old March 22nd, 2014, 01:55 AM
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Re: Ixe's Custom Units

Here's another moderately available figure that I figure I can use for another idea I've been playing with.

The figure is the Cormyrean War Wizard from D&D Unhallowed.


While I don't think it is a perfect fit for the miniature, one trope that I enjoy is the chronomancer, a wizard adept at manipulating time itself. They can make time run faster for their allies to allow them to do more or they can slow time down for their enemies to hinder them. Here is my take on these powers:

NAME = Cronus
GENERAL = Vydar (or Einar with that miniature)
PLANET = Eberron
SPECIES = Human
CLASS = Wizard
PERSONALITY = Tricky
SIZE = Medium 5
UNIQUE HERO

Life = 5
Move = 5
Range = 5
Attack = 3
Defense = 2
Points = 160

HASTE

All friendly Hero figures who start their turn within 3 clear sight spaces of Cronus may move 2 additional spaces. If that figure moves 0 spaces this turn, when that figure attacks with a normal attack, that figure may attack one additional time.

Slow
All opponent's figures who start their turn within 3 clear sight spaces of Cronus may not attack this turn if that figure moves 1 or more spaces.


Overall, these abilities function much like the D&D versions of the respective spells: Haste increases move speed and provides an extra attack on a full attack, or when the figure does not move. Slow reduces the opponent to single move or standard action, as demonstrated here.

Haste would be incredibly overpowered if it could apply to ranged squads, and is already pushed when applying to ranged heroes. The intention is to be able to stack with Double and Triple Strike, which I hope that it does. I figured Slow required no such restriction.

Balance-wise, his simultaneous buffs and debuffs seem useful, though he is marginalized by his otherwise frail stats, especially for his points. I could imagine him being particularly dangerous in a few builds (him+Syvarris+Raelin = 3 attacks of 3 at range 9, easily 4 from height or even 5 if we squeeze Taelord in) so I have him costed quite high for the moment, though I suspect I can bring him down substantially if the extra attack from Haste could only be made when engaged.

Feedback is always welcome and appreciated.

Last edited by Ixe; July 7th, 2014 at 11:52 AM.
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  #38  
Old March 22nd, 2014, 05:52 AM
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Re: Ixe's Custom Units

While a 3 hero podge army with sniper length arrows sounds cool, I'd hardly call it devastating Ixe. In truth, I think he might prove not worth 160 points. Between the time setting up the podge and getting your next round of OMs thought out in full, your opponent will be able to take massive map control. The Elf Wizards addressed this issue with Psuedo Squad actions and a bag of tricks, but here you don't really do anything terrifying like that. Its an idea that can definatelt use some polish, but a fun concept. Good luck with testing.

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  #39  
Old March 22nd, 2014, 08:42 AM
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Re: Ixe's Custom Units

Cronus seems like he would be worth quite a bit a passive cheerleader for your heroes. However, after looking him over, he really doesn't seem that dangerous. Slow seems like it is actually more dangerous than Haste, but the tiny range of three makes it surpassable by all figures. They just have to wait right outside of the aura. I think Haste would also be simpler if you applied it to all figures but got rid of the double attack at the end. This could give you something quite fast (16 move Theracus!), but doesn't give range that much of a bonus. Not that they need it anyhow.

Cronus seems like he could also use a little help against range. Have you thought of giving him an Evasive?

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  #40  
Old March 22nd, 2014, 10:02 AM
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Re: Ixe's Custom Units

Ixe, I like this guy a lot, although I think like the others that you're overcosting him. With his base stats he's worth around 90 points, I figure. I did a similar Wizard -- here's his powerset (in case it gives you any ideas):

Spoiler Alert!


You might consider Decelerate Projectiles for Cronus to give him a defensive boost against range. Picture Neo slowing down the bullets in the Matrix.

Last edited by IshMEL; March 22nd, 2014 at 10:09 AM.
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  #41  
Old March 22nd, 2014, 10:11 AM
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Re: Ixe's Custom Units

Also it might be worth spelling his name as Chronous, as Chrono means time iirc.

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  #42  
Old March 22nd, 2014, 05:49 PM
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Re: Ixe's Custom Units

Thanks for commenting, everyone. I should probably watch my late night posts since I must agree that I put this guy aggressively high because of one build that probably isn't even very good.

Cronus (or Kronus) was the name of Zeus's father from Greek mythology while Chronos (or Khronos) was the personification of time. During the Renaissance, the two were otherwise confused or purposefully mixed to the concept of Father Time. I had confused the two myself here a bit, and wanted to hit on the connection to time without beating you over the head with it. I'm up for playing around with the name some more.



NAME = Chronos
GENERAL = Vydar (or Einar with that miniature)
PLANET = Eberron
SPECIES = Human
CLASS = Wizard
PERSONALITY = Tricky
SIZE = Medium 5
UNIQUE HERO

Life = 4
Move = 5
Range = 5
Attack = 3
Defense = 2
Points = 140

HASTE

Once per turn, a friendly figures that start their turn within 3 clear sight spaces of Chronos may move 3 additional spaces. If that figure moves 0 spaces this turn, when that figure attacks with a normal attack, that figure may attack one additional time.

Slow
All opponent's figures who start their turn within 3 clear sight spaces of Chronos may not attack this turn if that figure moves 1 or more spaces.

Temporal Shield
When Chronos rolls defense against an attacking figure who is not adjacent, add 3 defense dice to his defense.


I tweaked the name to the obvious one and brought his life down by 1 and points down by 20. In the meanwhile, I made Haste apply only to one figure per turn, making it a bit friendlier to squads but still hopefully not running away with things. Haste also provides a 3 move bonus instead because I figure it should be about as good as moving on a road space. His life was brought down largely because of Temporal Shield, which is just Evasive 3, but it makes him very robust to melee and ranged attacks between that and slow.

I'm still a little worried about the guy, but I think he's interesting and at the very least thematic with his abilities. I only fear that him + Ralin + ranged + rats is just going to be far too nasty of a build. Get them some height, screen out the rats, and enjoy being robust to range and melee while getting an additional attack per turn with the stingers. For melee in particular, any that get through must essentially wait an additional turn before they can attack even if they get past the rats. I'll leave him like this for now, but he is raising some red flags for me.

As always, comments and feedback are welcome. Thank you all for putting comments down on him already.

Last edited by Ixe; July 7th, 2014 at 11:52 AM. Reason: added picture
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  #43  
Old March 31st, 2014, 03:10 PM
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Re: Ixe's Custom Units

Chronos is pretty interesting (and I love the name). It's a good attempt at creating a time-manipulating figure. But that's a very tricky design space, and I think there are some problems.

With Haste, why is there a once per turn limitation to a start of turn power? There aren't too many powers that give bonus normal movement during a turn -- I think Berserker Charge is the only one. For units that take multiple turns, such as Venoc Vipers, they will potentially get the benefit each time since each activation is a new turn. Also, the wording "when that figure attacks with a normal attack, that figure may attack one additional time" begs another question: what about a figure with Double Attack? Each attack from Double Attack is a separate normal attack, so would Syvarris get 4 attacks if he's near Chronos? I don't see why he wouldn't. Whirlwind Assaulters are crazy with the boost.

With Slow, can figures use "instead of attacking" powers? How about figures with combined attacks such as Roman Archers? If one of them starts in the aura, can the group not use Arrow Volley? It's not really that figure attacking. As for the movement condition, is that only for normal movement, or any sort of movement? What if the figure is moved by an outside power, such as the summoning glyph?
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  #44  
Old April 1st, 2014, 12:45 PM
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Re: Ixe's Custom Units

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scytale View Post
Chronos is pretty interesting (and I love the name). It's a good attempt at creating a time-manipulating figure. But that's a very tricky design space, and I think there are some problems.

With Haste, why is there a once per turn limitation to a start of turn power? There aren't too many powers that give bonus normal movement during a turn -- I think Berserker Charge is the only one. For units that take multiple turns, such as Venoc Vipers, they will potentially get the benefit each time since each activation is a new turn. Also, the wording "when that figure attacks with a normal attack, that figure may attack one additional time" begs another question: what about a figure with Double Attack? Each attack from Double Attack is a separate normal attack, so would Syvarris get 4 attacks if he's near Chronos? I don't see why he wouldn't. Whirlwind Assaulters are crazy with the boost.

With Slow, can figures use "instead of attacking" powers? How about figures with combined attacks such as Roman Archers? If one of them starts in the aura, can the group not use Arrow Volley? It's not really that figure attacking. As for the movement condition, is that only for normal movement, or any sort of movement? What if the figure is moved by an outside power, such as the summoning glyph?
It is definitely a tricky design space and one that I was trying to limit the scope of. With any ability that grants extra actions of any sort, the ability is as good as the actions granted. For a figure like this that can interact with any unit or squad, I wanted to try to stop it from doubling actions in a completely broken way with some figure that exist now or in the future.

Overall, I am not sure about your interpretation of Haste. Double Attack reads "When <unit name> attacks, he/she may attack one additional time." It is pretty clear that this additional attack only happens once and does not chain infinitely, even though you could technically read it as such (I attacked an additional time, meaning that I can attack an additional time again etc). Similarly, it was my intention to use the Heroscape language as best as I could that it only triggers once. If the game rules were spelled out more explicitly, this would be an extra attack made at the end of the attack phase that would not trigger off of any other special powers. Thus a unit like Syvarris would ideally get 3 attacks while a figure with Whirlwind Assualt would only get one additional attack beyond the other ones they just did. That is the intention at the very least, and I believe that there is precedent through things like Double Attack, Triple Attack, and the Fen Hydra for it. I wanted to restrict it to normal attacks so it would not include potentially devastating special attacks (like Q9 or Nilfheim).

Otherwise, the intention of the once per turn specification is to try to make it less good for squads. If all figures within range received the benefit, an entire ranged squad could turtle around the time mage and unleash a double barrage. This would otherwise only provide a single member with an extra attack. My original version only gave the version to heroes but I tried to expand it with this wording. I am otherwise much less concerned about the movement bonus than I am about the extra attacks. Beyond the once per turn specification, the language of the movement bonus is otherwise similar to that granted by Acolarh. While there are units that can get multiple turns, it is difficult to chain and I see it as an extra synergy feature rather than a bug. In their cases, they still must maintain proximity to the time mage to reap the reward.

You do raise some good questions with Slow that I am not entirely certain that I have the answers to. While it is not explicitly stated in the rules, from powers it has become clear that the game operates in phases. In one perspective, one could see not being able to attack as skipping that figures attack phase, also excluding any "instead of attacking" powers. On the other hand, and where I believe the power lies, not being able to attack would probably merely exclude attacks that are clearly spelled out in the rules, i.e. normal and special attacks. Therefore, it would seem that any slowed unit could still use "instead of attacking" powers without problem. For Combined attacks like Arrow Volley, Zombie Onslaught, and Encircle, these are all combined attacks and part of a Special Attack that strongly implies to me that a unit that was slowed this turn and unable to attack has no attack to combine into the special and cannot be included in that grouping. While not entirely thematic, it would seem that a figure that started its turn within the Slow aura and moved 1 or more spaces through any means (including Erland) would be denied an attack. It is not perfect, but neither is triggering Engagement Strike twice as a figure phantom walks through another in my opinion.

This is a rather complicated figure but I believe that there are answers for all issues raised, though if it would probably have to be accompanied with a FAQ to answer these good questions. Fundamentally, I'm a bit scared of the design in that he can grant anyone extra actions, but it I feel that at least my intended space may be safe enough as he stands. While a thematic pairing with Haste, I am not entirely convinced that he needs Slow and could probably just play around with his temporal shield instead. As always, thanks for commenting, everyone.

Last edited by Ixe; April 3rd, 2014 at 12:48 PM. Reason: grammar
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  #45  
Old April 1st, 2014, 01:09 PM
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Re: Ixe's Custom Units

I really like what you're going for here! The theme behind Haste and Slow works really well. Mechanically they're a bit tough to rule on, I admit, but I think it's worth working with.
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  #46  
Old April 18th, 2014, 03:20 PM
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Re: Ixe's Custom Units

Here is a fun and mostly joking idea that I wanted to share. In retrospect, I probably should have posted this on April 1st.



These are the Ninjas from Fenryll Miniatures. They come unpainted in packs of 3 for 10 euros and I have no clue as to their availability.

NAME = Ninjas of the Southern Wind
GENERAL = Einar
PLANET = Earth
SPECIES = Human
CLASS = Ninja
PERSONALITY = Disciplined
SIZE = Medium 4
UNIQUE SQUAD

Life = 1
Move = 6
Range = 1
Attack = 3
Defense = 4
Points = 110

CONSERVATION OF NINJITSU

After revealing an Order Marker on the Ninjas of the Southern Wind, after taking a turn with the Ninjas, for each previously destroyed Ninja of the Southern Wind on this Army Card, take an additional turn with the Ninjas of the Southern Wind. During an additional turn, you may not move or attack with more figures from this Army Card than the number of destroyed Ninjas of the Southern Wind on this Army Card.

Phantom Walk
Ninjas of the Southern Wind can move through all figures and are never attacked when leaving an engagement.


The joke of this card is on Conservation of Ninjitsu, a common trope. The observed phenomenon from media is that one ninja is a huge threat, but 50 ninjas are about the same level of threat. In effect, ninjitsu is conserved and the threats that ninjas pose is relatively constant despite their numbers.

This power takes the trope quite literally and maintains the level of threat (i.e. activations) of the unit until all ninja are destroyed. As much as it is a joke on a common trope, I actually do really like the power and think it could be fun to play around with. I feel that unique squads particularly suffer from loss of figures translating directly and immediately into loss of efficacy while heroes and multiple common squads function completely until they are fully or near fully destroyed.

Last edited by Ixe; July 7th, 2014 at 11:23 AM.
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  #47  
Old April 18th, 2014, 03:21 PM
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Re: Ixe's Custom Units

Interesting concept... What other units do you think that type of power would work on thematically?
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  #48  
Old April 18th, 2014, 04:02 PM
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Re: Ixe's Custom Units

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evar-Scarcarver View Post
Interesting concept... What other units do you think that type of power would work on thematically?
You could probably swing a few things for this concept. I could see stretching some form of robot or golem or what-not that all share the same power source, some berseker types who go wild to avenge their dead (though that would probably be a bit different). In DC comics, I'm pretty sure all speedsters share the Speed Force so that would probably also work for a troop of them. I could even see some time manipulators not terribly dissimilar from my custom idea, Chronus, do something similar to this. It may take some doing, but I'm sure there is potential for this kind of ability to be used somewhere.
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