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  #61  
Old May 24th, 2019, 06:18 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] UNIT NAME (Leyline Phantoms) - Design

As far as the issue of theme (and at the risk of repeating what others have said) - think dimension-hopping Xenomorphs. That’s what I have in mind for them. Hunters, stalkers, beasts that exist partially out of phase with the rest of reality, and use their method of phasing through objects as the ultimate element of surprise.
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Old May 26th, 2019, 02:31 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] UNIT NAME (Leyline Phantoms) - Design

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Originally Posted by Astroking112 View Post
Rapidly blinking in and out of existence doesn't match the "menacing alien" feel to me.
I didn't say rapidly. More "leaving this dimension for another, to reappear slightly to the left". They don't stay in the other dimension long (just long enough to escape engagement or dodge a shot), but they also don't instantly displace halfway across the battlefield (a different kind of rapid). Hence also me starting Blink at 2 spaces.

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if we wanted to go with a kind of alien that shows up to beat up some people when they least expect it, I think that a better teleport fits that theme more.
Two different ways to accomplish the same "appearing where you least expect it" theme, but Teleport doesn't fit what I'm envisioning. Blink fits the stalker-type alien better.

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As far as the issue of theme (and at the risk of repeating what others have said) - think dimension-hopping Xenomorphs. Thatís what I have in mind for them. Hunters, stalkers, beasts that exist partially out of phase with the rest of reality, and use their method of phasing through objects as the ultimate element of surprise.
There we go. At least PK can read my mind when I haven't spelled it out well enough on the forum.

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  #63  
Old May 26th, 2019, 04:26 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] UNIT NAME (Leyline Phantoms) - Design

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Originally Posted by Pumpkin_King View Post
As far as the issue of theme (and at the risk of repeating what others have said) - think dimension-hopping Xenomorphs. Thatís what I have in mind for them. Hunters, stalkers, beasts that exist partially out of phase with the rest of reality, and use their method of phasing through objects as the ultimate element of surprise.
I get the "dimension-hopping horror" idea quite well, I just don't think that the current mechanics are the strongest option for it or that it's the best fit for HeroScape in the first place. It reminds me of seeing a Xenomorph at Disney World; while it isn't that extreme, it still feels like we would've seen a different type of alien before one inspired by Alien.

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Rapidly blinking in and out of existence doesn't match the "menacing alien" feel to me.
I didn't say rapidly. More "leaving this dimension for another, to reappear slightly to the left". They don't stay in the other dimension long (just long enough to escape engagement or dodge a shot), but they also don't instantly displace halfway across the battlefield (a different kind of rapid). Hence also me starting Blink at 2 spaces.

Two different ways to accomplish the same "appearing where you least expect it" theme, but Teleport doesn't fit what I'm envisioning. Blink fits the stalker-type alien better.
The mechanics imply rapidly. They disappear and reappear a space or two away, walk some distance, and then do it again their next chance. If we're aiming for a horror-inspired alien, one that can instantly appear further away before striking at their opponent captures that theme better. Even if we go with a new "Teleport" of just 5-ish spaces (necessary for this set, IMO), that still feels more aligned with horror than an alien disengaging or jumping through a ruin to run at the defender.
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  #64  
Old May 26th, 2019, 06:04 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] UNIT NAME (Leyline Phantoms) - Design

I don't think you're seeing the same thing in mind's eye that @Pumpkin_King and I are (heck, if I'm not describing what he's seeing either, he can tell me I'm wrong, too!). Maybe we rename it something other than Blink if that helps, but I'm not picturing a "rapid" in-and-out. This gif actually illustrates it pretty well if you imagine them as walking through another dimension, but solid (i.e. in our dimension) at beginning and end:



They phase for a second or two still travelling relatively normally, but in another dimension and reappear in our dimension somewhere else. None of the instantaneous here-then-way-over-there of Teleportation.

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  #65  
Old May 26th, 2019, 06:17 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] UNIT NAME (Leyline Phantoms) - Design

Quote:
Originally Posted by NecroBlade View Post
I don't think you're seeing the same thing in mind's eye that @Pumpkin_King and I are (heck, if I'm not describing what he's seeing either, he can tell me I'm wrong, too!). Maybe we rename it something other than Blink if that helps, but I'm not picturing a "rapid" in-and-out. This gif actually illustrates it pretty well if you imagine them as walking through another dimension, but solid (i.e. in our dimension) at beginning and end:



They phase for a second or two still travelling relatively normally, but in another dimension and reappear in our dimension somewhere else. None of the instantaneous here-then-way-over-there of Teleportation.
This is pretty much exactly what I had in mind! This gif is a good illustration.
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  #66  
Old May 26th, 2019, 09:04 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] UNIT NAME (Leyline Phantoms) - Design

Quote:
Originally Posted by NecroBlade View Post
I don't think you're seeing the same thing in mind's eye that @Pumpkin_King and I are (heck, if I'm not describing what he's seeing either, he can tell me I'm wrong, too!). Maybe we rename it something other than Blink if that helps, but I'm not picturing a "rapid" in-and-out. This gif actually illustrates it pretty well if you imagine them as walking through another dimension, but solid (i.e. in our dimension) at beginning and end:



They phase for a second or two still travelling relatively normally, but in another dimension and reappear in our dimension somewhere else. None of the instantaneous here-then-way-over-there of Teleportation.
The problem is that there are two distinct phases of movement as written; one where they are normally walking, and one where they briefly phase at least partially into another dimension. If we want to convey this style of movement specifically, where they are only solid at beginning and end, then I don't think that the longer walking phase (where they move just like any other figure) accomplishes that. A mechanic more akin to Phantom Walk is more fitting to that theme, either with or without the ability to move through obstacles as well.
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Old May 26th, 2019, 09:36 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] UNIT NAME (Leyline Phantoms) - Design

I'm having trouble coming up with any alternate ideas for these guys myself, but I'll note that despite my preferences I'm more or less okay with most ideas that have been proposed. That said, I don't think it's to our benefit to get bogged down in discussing which specific version of theoretical interdimensional travel we want to represent. The theme is broad enough that there are plenty of different options we can justify, so let's pick the one that works best for the design.
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Old May 26th, 2019, 10:28 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] UNIT NAME (Leyline Phantoms) - Design

My vote right now is for 4 Move and a 2-Blink. Blink being through obstacles and whatever.

Secondary I’d like some version of Phased Out. I liked Telefrag, but I’m happy to leave it on the floor for Blink 2/Phased Out
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Old May 27th, 2019, 02:43 AM
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Re: [Pod 0] UNIT NAME (Leyline Phantoms) - Design

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Originally Posted by All Your Pie View Post
That said, I don't think it's to our benefit to get bogged down in discussing which specific version of theoretical interdimensional travel we want to represent. The theme is broad enough that there are plenty of different options we can justify, so let's pick the one that works best for the design.
Agreed. So long as the feeling of traversal fits the design and theme (as in horror evokes horror or anything else), I'm fine with it. I don't think that we need to worry about what version of dimension hopping is being used so long as the design plays like a horror creature if we're going down that route.
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Old May 27th, 2019, 12:51 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] UNIT NAME (Leyline Phantoms) - Design

That gif seems very reminiscent of Phantom Walking, just with less Stealth and more Phantomness.

How about running Astroís idea?

Interdimensional Walk:
Spooky Aliens may move through all figures and obstacles, and never receives leaving engagement attacks.

Blinking up castle walls might be nice, but realistically, not effective on units who only have limited anti-range powers anyways. We do lose the ability to blip through them however.

If we want that, we may as well have teleportation, which Blink basically is (itís just in addition to moving).

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Old May 27th, 2019, 08:50 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] UNIT NAME (Leyline Phantoms) - Design

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Originally Posted by Astroking112 View Post
The problem is that there are two distinct phases of movement as written; one where they are normally walking, and one where they briefly phase at least partially into another dimension. If we want to convey this style of movement specifically, where they are only solid at beginning and end, then I don't think that the longer walking phase (where they move just like any other figure) accomplishes that. A mechanic more akin to Phantom Walk is more fitting to that theme, either with or without the ability to move through obstacles as well.
Again, that's not what I suggested. They can move into the other dimension for a couple seconds at a time. Hence Blink 2 spaces, then normal move. If we're worried about castle walls, we could always make it same level. (I'm not; can they move vertical relative to our dimension while walking in the other? Sure, why not. My point was there's still movement happening, not just the disappear-here-reappear-there of teleportation.)

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Old May 27th, 2019, 08:52 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] UNIT NAME (Leyline Phantoms) - Design

I kind of like Move of 3 or 4 and then blink of 3 or 2 with a same level requirement. Prevents them from being functionally faster than 6 move over uneven ground while still capturing our theme. I think I slightly prefer move 4, blink 2 also.
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