The Book of Guardian of the Universe (Appa Ali Apsa)

[IAmBatman]

Seems about right to me, thematically. Usually they either seem untouchable or they face a giant threat that mops the floor with them, with little in between.

[Lazy Orang]

Originally Posted by IAmBatman

Seems about right to me, thematically. Usually they either seem untouchable or they face a giant threat that mops the floor with them, with little in between.

Yep, that sounds about right.
Swingy figures are a part of the game, japes. You could say the exact same thing about Flash - in fact these are probably less swingy.

[Lord Pyre]

I'm more worried about them not being fun. With rolling 12 defense with boosts, he'll be a pain in the butt for low level heroes. I always personally prefer lower defense (Like.... 6 max), and then upping life. Pinging away at life gives you a sense of accomplishment. Slamming your attacks against a brick wall to no avail isn't fun.

But with only 3 life hopefully it'll be okay. Looks good otherwise!

[japes]

Originally Posted by Lazy Orang

Yep, that sounds about right.
Swingy figures are a part of the game, japes. You could say the exact same thing about Flash - in fact these are probably less swingy.

I’m obviously not explaining myself well because everyone’s attempt to convince me is way off missing.

It’s not the swinginess that bothers me. It’s the type of swinginess. Flash and Spidey type figures can be calculated to a justifiable percentage of failure. The only math justification you can make for high defense is on 9 dice base is you will average 3 shields so no figure that averages less than 4 skulls (which is base attack of 8 per math) can reliable even compete. So you are left with just waiting for a statistical anomaly to occur. And that’s more of a fun issue. It’s extremely frustration to play against and if it happens too early you you it’s extremely frustrating for the player controlling. Either way every game will have one side being frustrated. It’s more of a fun issue.

[japes]

Originally Posted by Lord Pyre

I'm more worried about them not being fun. With rolling 12 defense with boosts, he'll be a pain in the butt for low level heroes. I always personally prefer lower defense (Like.... 6 max), and then upping life. Pinging away at life gives you a sense of accomplishment. Slamming your attacks against a brick will to no avail isn't fun.

I got ninja posted while trying to put my thoughts into words. Exactly what I’m trying to say. Thanks for being more elegant.

[Lazy Orang]

I still don't see that personally. Everyone accepts that die roll anomalies happen, and that they aren't that rare. If they didn't Superman would be broken, and the game wouldn't be fun for anyone because lower costing figures wouldn't have any shot against higher costing ones. I don't see how 9 Defence is less fun than Superman's 7 Defence plus Man of Steel - IMO, it's more fun, since the chances of a poor roll are more likely. And, with 3 Life, odds are good they can survive at least one poor roll - probably not more than that, but again, this feels thematic to me.
I'd at least prefer to try it like this - I'd hate to dismiss it without giving it a go, it feels like it'll make for a really distinct and different unit.

[Arch-vile]

There are tons of figures with 4-5 life and 4-5 defense; IMO it's fine (and should be encouraged) to break from that mold here and do something more extreme. Deathwalker 9000 is a favorite of many in classic'scape because he's so swingy and different. He can block everything or die to 1 skull, meaning every defense roll is exciting. It's not for everyone (the unfun argument is true for many players), but it provides a different style of play, one that players who like big moments and taking risks will appreciate.

Besides, I see the Guardians as much less frustrating to fight against than Green Lantern Hal Jordan. He starts with 7 defense, 4 life and can ignore your attack whenever you get a good attack roll. One good attack from a heavy hitter could easily dispatch a Guardian in one hit.

[Lord Pyre]

The difference is that these guys are projected to be about 260. Superman, Doomsday, Allen, and all the others with massive defense are all about 400.

You can fit 4 Guardians in your 1000 point army. Only 1, maybe 2 of the latter.

[Lazy Orang]

Originally Posted by Arch-vile

There are tons of figures with 4-5 life and 4-5 defense; IMO it's fine (and should be encouraged) to break from that mold here and do something more extreme. Deathwalker 9000 is a favorite of many in classic'scape because he's so swingy and different. He can block everything or die to 1 skull, meaning every defense roll is exciting. It's not for everyone (the unfun argument is true for many players), but it provides a different style of play, one that players who like big moments and taking risks will appreciate.

Besides, I see the Guardians as much less frustrating to fight against than Green Lantern Hal Jordan. He starts with 7 defense, 4 life and can ignore your attack whenever you get a good attack roll. One good attack from a heavy hitter could easily dispatch a Guardian in one hit.

This. Absolutely this.
I really want to see more extreme stat-lines as opposed to standard 'balanced across the board ones' - I want to see high defence, low life glass jaws, low defence, high life endurance fighters, glass cannons etc.. Adds to the game.

[Arch-vile]

Originally Posted by Lord Pyre

The difference is that these guys are projected to be about 260. Superman, Doomsday, Allen, and all the others with massive defense are all about 400.

You can fit 4 Guardians in your 1000 point army. Only 1, maybe 2 of the latter.

Yeah, but those guys have way more life (and the Kryptonians also count blanks as shields).

I'm just guessing on point value; I was planning on asking for suggestions on what point value to start at for initial playtesting. I think people are massively overestimating a high defense number so I feel 260 is accurate but if it's not then their points would obviously go up in testing.

[Lazy Orang]

I could theoretically see them as higher, thematically. Don't think they need to be, but they could be.

[IAmBatman]

Originally Posted by Lord Pyre

I'm more worried about them not being fun. With rolling 12 defense with boosts, he'll be a pain in the butt for low level heroes. I always personally prefer lower defense (Like.... 6 max), and then upping life. Pinging away at life gives you a sense of accomplishment. Slamming your attacks against a brick wall to no avail isn't fun.

But with only 3 life hopefully it'll be okay. Looks good otherwise!

You must hate playing against the Fantastic Four.