Sir Heroscape's customs

[Sir Heroscape]

Hey all. After much deliberation, I've decided to change the Shadow Fiend's Special Attack. Below are the two options I've heavily considered but would like some help making a final decision. I'd like some feedback so I can make a decision and begin playtesting again with this faction.

OPTION 1:

SHADOW BOLT SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 3 + Special. Attack 3.
Subtract 1 from the defending figures defense for every other Shadow figure it is engaged with that you control, up to minus 2 defense. After attacking with Shadow Bolt Special Attack, if the defending figure receives at least 1 wound, you may choose 1 additional figure to target that was adjacent to the defending figure at the beginning of that attack and attack that chosen figure with Shadow Bolt Special Attack.

This option basically takes Sharwin's special attack but adds a Shadow twist to it to make it more powerful when they work together.

OPTION 2:

SHADOW WARP SPECIAL ATTACK
Range Special. Attack 1 + Special.
Choose a Shadow figure you control that is within 3 clear sight spaces of the attacking Shadow Fiend and roll 1 attack die. Add 1 attack die if there is another Shadow figure you control adjacent to the chosen figure. One at a time for each skull rolled, you may inflict 1 wound on any small or medium figure that is within 2 clear sight spaces of the chosen Shadow figure. Figures affected by Shadow Warp Special Attack cannot roll any defense dice.

This option basically takes Pelloth's special attack but adds a Shadow twist to it to make it more powerful when they work together.

[Scytale]

The first allows the attack to bounce back and forth between two figures repeatedly until one dies. You can prevent that with more words, but the power is already almost too long for a piece of the faction.

Lolth's Wrath is one of the biggest pains to us VC Editors, but this seems to be pretty much the same so that's ok. I'm not a fan of the theme so much, though. It feels kinda forced.

[Sir Heroscape]

Originally Posted by Scytale

The first allows the attack to bounce back and forth between two figures repeatedly until one dies. You can prevent that with more words, but the power is already almost too long for a piece of the faction.

Lolth's Wrath is one of the biggest pains to us VC Editors, but this seems to be pretty much the same so that's ok. I'm not a fan of the theme so much, though. It feels kinda forced.

hmmm...some good points. I'll have to see about the first power and see if i can fix it to not keep bouncing back and forth. As for the Pelloth power, I'm trying to go off of some lore I found on Shadow Demon's and their magic abilities.

[tolchock]

How do I know where to find these figures that you are using?

[Sir Heroscape]

Originally Posted by tolchock

How do I know where to find these figures that you are using?

Which figures in particular?

[Sir Heroscape]

Looking for some feedback.

I've been mulling over these two for a while now. Below are the 'new' versions (likely to change depending on feedback), with a few comments as to why.


The Shadow faction was missing some help in their ability to make a push within a game. I finally came across the Eradicator card again and realized how much I liked the risk and reward aspect of their ability. I've modified this SA to reflect something similar and am pretty happy with the results. A single Fiend can attack up to 2 times max, but there's potential for destroying him. But, because shadow faction is lower on numbers, there is a higher chance if they group together. This ability allows the Fiends to fly around attacking everywhere while the Binders and Hounds hold the frontline.


I didn't like this figure as a Warrior. My backstory for him was the brother of Empress Kiova, also a commander of Einar's troops, hence the name change and class change. I also didn't like him being so exclusive to the Imperium, but would rather he be also available to them as other soldiers. With his new ability, I think he provides a commanding presence on the battlefield charging after would-be attackers of his troops. But I felt it necessary to put in a D20 roll if he was going to be dealing insta-wounds. I feel that he's also not too OP because it won't activate on large or huge figures AND if he fails, it kinda makes thematic sense that he wouldn't always be able to help his troops. When he can he doesn't shy away from a fight and charges in to protect his soldiers.

@Scytale if you'd be so kind as to comment from an editors perspective on these powers? I feel like they read clearly, but I'm sure I'm missing something. And of course feel free to add other comments as you see fit.

[tolchock]

Originally Posted by Sir Heroscape

Which figures in particular?

No not really. All of them? ^^

If I see where the figure originaly is from its esier to eventually find it and incloude it in the army

[Scytale]

Originally Posted by Sir Heroscape

@Scytale if you'd be so kind as to comment from an editors perspective on these powers? I feel like they read clearly, but I'm sure I'm missing something. And of course feel free to add other comments as you see fit.

Leader's Reprisal should say "the figured that was attacked receives no damage" or something like it as similar powers do. Also, "may immediately move" is not very clear as it doesn't clarify whether this is teleport-like or space-by-space. Use "place" instead of "move."

[Astroking112]

Originally Posted by Sir Heroscape

Unless I'm mistaken, Shadow Fury allows for chaining more than just one time (since each time you get to use the Special Attack, so you can roll again). That might get problematic in an ideal situation with tons of points where you have shadows everywhere (since you could just keep hopping around with three Shadow Fiends to take some very long turns), but that's really the worst that I can see happening with allowing the chain to keep on going.

If you don't want to allow this long chaining, I would suggest giving them some form of Overextend Attack, where they're guaranteed the turn but also guaranteed to die afterwards. That might let you make them slightly more powerful in compensation. I doubt that it'll be a problem outside of massive games, but those are worth some level of consideration.

Originally Posted by Sir Heroscape

I didn't like this figure as a Warrior. My backstory for him was the brother of Empress Kiova, also a commander of Einar's troops, hence the name change and class change. I also didn't like him being so exclusive to the Imperium, but would rather he be also available to them as other soldiers. With his new ability, I think he provides a commanding presence on the battlefield charging after would-be attackers of his troops. But I felt it necessary to put in a D20 roll if he was going to be dealing insta-wounds. I feel that he's also not too OP because it won't activate on large or huge figures AND if he fails, it kinda makes thematic sense that he wouldn't always be able to help his troops. When he can he doesn't shy away from a fight and charges in to protect his soldiers.

Personally, I liked the last iteration more. I still believe that "Einar Soldiers" is a far more crowded group than "Kyries," and the Soldiers are all already quite good. Adding a strong 4/4 flying figure that has a 65% chance to stop Romans or Redcoats from dying and wound the attacker sounds like it would be a headache. If you want to match the theme of Kiova only supporting Einar units, I don't think that "Soldiers" will be the best choice mechanically.

On the other hand, Kyries could benefit from the synergy a lot more. They're much more expensive and less plentiful, making each roll count more, and outside of a potential Sentinels/Raelin/Kuahtan combo, they seem like a much more "fun" route to go down.

[Sir Heroscape]

Originally Posted by Scytale

Leader's Reprisal should say "the figured that was attacked receives no damage" or something like it as similar powers do. Also, "may immediately move" is not very clear as it doesn't clarify whether this is teleport-like or space-by-space. Use "place" instead of "move."

Good call on the movement aspect. In regards to the “after attacking” clause I wanted it to operate like unto the Nakita Agents in the sense that he is taking out the would-be attacker before it’s able to do damage on a fellow soldier. I think there’s presendent for this with the Nakitas, though it is slightly different. Maybe I should just word it to match the Nakitas as the figure is “targeted” the ability activates?

[BiggaBullfrog]

Real quick on the Shadow Fiend's SA, I'm pretty sure the spaces it gets to move after a successful roll should be defined within the text of the SA, because that's how SAs work, and the movement phase has ended, so it wouldn't get movement bonuses from road, glyphs, etc.

Originally Posted by Astroking112

Personally, I liked the last iteration more. I still believe that "Einar Soldiers" is a far more crowded group than "Kyries," and the Soldiers are all already quite good. Adding a strong 4/4 flying figure that has a 65% chance to stop Romans or Redcoats from dying and wound the attacker sounds like it would be a headache. If you want to match the theme of Kiova only supporting Einar units, I don't think that "Soldiers" will be the best choice mechanically.

On the other hand, Kyries could benefit from the synergy a lot more. They're much more expensive and less plentiful, making each roll count more, and outside of a potential Sentinels/Raelin/Kuahtan combo, they seem like a much more "fun" route to go down.

Agreed with personal preference for Common Kyrie (no-no for Rae Rae) over Soldiers. Mostly for reasons Astro mentioned. Mildly (and very, very mildly) because that makes two d20 rolls when SB are attacked next to Parmenio. Majorly because of the look I know that @TrueMurray would give you if you submitted something that helped the 10th.

I also think his power should be limited to once per turn, since moving and dealing damage potentially four times in a turn is a lot to imagine one guy doing.

Also, ala Zogross, LR should only work on normal attacks, since explosions and fire lines get weird with that.

[Scytale]

Originally Posted by Sir Heroscape

Good call on the movement aspect. In regards to the “after attacking” clause I wanted it to operate like unto the Nakita Agents in the sense that he is taking out the would-be attacker before it’s able to do damage on a fellow soldier. I think there’s presendent for this with the Nakitas, though it is slightly different. Maybe I should just word it to match the Nakitas as the figure is “targeted” the ability activates?

Smoke Powder triggers during targeting, i.e. before the attack roll. It prevents the attack and the attacker can target something else. What you have is post-roll (like Vanish or Defy Death), so if you want it to prevent damage, you have to explicitly state it.