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C3G Legacy Library This is the archive for all the designs released in the original era of C3G. Feel free to post any figure specific questions in their individual books.

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  #13  
Old March 24th, 2022, 11:41 AM
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Re: The Book of D.Va (Pilot) - Breathing

Yeah you're right, we could drop the "Instead of attacking" clause then, I'll update the SP. I suppose if in testing we can add it back if a scenario pops up where you would want to use it. I can see it being preferred against the likes of Spider-Man. Even then Spidey will get a turn to take her out.

Also, if she works with any design that allows 2 turns, you could move D.Va in, self-destruct, and take the second turn as the pilot to bring her back. Not sure that'd be too crazy, but something that would need to be kept an eye on if we bring it back.

Demona already has a once per game + a revival power. Also characters like Arnim Zola and Scarlet Witch (Avengers) can revive someone, so it likely would of been brought up before. I don't see why it'd let you do it again though, if it you could do it every time the mech is destroyed, the "Once per game" part is unnecessary.
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  #14  
Old March 24th, 2022, 06:39 PM
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Re: The Book of D.Va (Pilot) - Breathing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skinderella View Post
I suppose if in testing we can add it back if a scenario pops up where you would want to use it.
I'm very in support of asking playtesters to keep eyes on these kinds of things!

Spidey yanking a live bomb away from his allies sounds awesome though, not sure you're making a great case for it there.

Quote:
Also, if she works with any design that allows 2 turns, you could move D.Va in, self-destruct, and take the second turn as the pilot to bring her back. Not sure that'd be too crazy, but something that would need to be kept an eye on if we bring it back.
Honestly that doesn't sound like an issue at all? If you're bringing JL MM or IJL Grodd, for example, there are usually way stronger things you can be bonding together than D.Va.

We're getting real close. Here's what I would do with the wording.
Quote:
OVERWATCH: MEKA PILOT
You may draft one other Hana Song that is Large. For the remainder of the game, that figure is considered to be D.Va's Mech. If you do, D.Va starts the game on this card. If D.Va is on this card and not destroyed at the start of your turn, you may move any Order Markers from this Army Card to the Army Card of D.Va's Mech.

CALL MEKA
When D.Va's Mech is destroyed, place D.Va on any unoccupied space within 3 spaces of her Mech's original placement. After D.Va attacks an opponent's figure, place a Pink MEKA Marker on this Army Card. Before taking a turn with this D.Va, there are 3 MEKA Markers on this card, you may remove all Wound Markers and MEKA Markers from your D.Va cards and switch D.Va with her Mech. Figures moved by this special power do not take any leaving engagement attacks.

NERF THIS!
Once per game, if your Large D.Va would be destroyed, you may instead use Nerf This!. Roll 3 unblockable attack dice against each figure within 3 clear sight spaces of D.Va, one at a time. After using Nerf This!, place 3 MEKA Markers on this card and destroy your Large D.Va.
Not sure the blue line is the best way to do that? It'd be nice if you had a way to move OMs around so that Tracer can bond with Mech D.Va, if that makes sense.

Other than that, I kinda just shuffled the effects around a little.
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  #15  
Old March 25th, 2022, 10:19 AM
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Re: The Book of D.Va (Pilot) - Breathing

That's true, Spidey would be the one to pull it away

I did mean more how it'd be useful against someone that dodges attacks easily, but even then she's then vulnerable during an enemy turn.

That write-up looks great! Seems like we're just fine tuning her now. I've done some tweaks to make Nerf This! reference the mech, and done a copy-paste of Winston's leadership power. Not sure if it's a good idea, but I've also split the Eject Meka part to make the card read a little better and not be a back and forth between different powers.

Quote:
OVERWATCH: MEKA PILOT
You may draft one other Hana Song that is Large. For the remainder of the game, that figure is considered to be D.Va's Mech. If you do, D.Va starts the game on this card. At the start of each of your turns, if D.Va is not destroyed, you may move any Order Markers on this card to her Mech's card.

CALL MEKA
After D.Va attacks an opponent's figure, place a Pink MEKA Marker on this Army Card. Before revealing a numbered Order Marker on a Hana Song card, if there are 3 MEKA Markers on this card, you may remove all Wound Markers and MEKA Markers from your Hana Song cards and switch D.Va with her Mech. Figures moved by this special power do not take any leaving engagement attacks.

NERF THIS!
Once per game, if D.Va's Mech would be destroyed, you may instead use Nerf This!. Roll 3 unblockable attack dice against each figure within 3 clear sight spaces of D.Va's Mech, one at a time. After using Nerf This!, place 3 MEKA Markers on this card and destroy D.Va's Mech.

EJECT MEKA
When D.Va's Mech is destroyed, place D.Va on any unoccupied space within 3 spaces of her Mech's original placement.

Last edited by Skinderella; March 25th, 2022 at 11:48 AM.
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  #16  
Old March 25th, 2022, 11:46 AM
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Re: The Book of D.Va (Pilot) - Breathing

I'm a bit concerned with the ability to revive the Mech. The combo of "Nerf This" and dealing damage when it's destroyed on an opponent's turn, and then fully healing both the pilot and mech your very next OM seems like quite a bit. I'd prefer to cut the 3 markers from Nerf This, personally. And cut the healing from the pilot (Seems pretty strange anyway? If she's calling in a new mech why would her wounds go away?)

Basically this figure is 100% designed to just hopefully give the mech an extra life, or maybe two if you're lucky. It's really good at it in a way I'm worried would be a bit frustrating? Obviously testing will show for sure though and maybe it's fine.

I think it might be fun to add a bit more "pilot-ness" to this figure too, and give the mech a minor stat boost while she's on her card?

Any reason her mech is a Meka, but we're considering it to be a Mech? Couldn't we just say that figure is considered to be D.Va's Meka?

I'll try to get some proper mini pics this weekend!
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  #17  
Old March 25th, 2022, 12:06 PM
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Re: The Book of D.Va (Pilot) - Breathing

I mean the character usually blows up the suit and brings it back multiple times per game. So that’s important to represent. And the suit is called a Meka in universe.
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  #18  
Old March 25th, 2022, 12:20 PM
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Re: The Book of D.Va (Pilot) - Breathing

Quote:
Originally Posted by tcglkn View Post
I mean the character usually blows up the suit and brings it back multiple times per game. So that’s important to represent. And the suit is called a Meka in universe.
So we should change the callouts from "mech" to "meka?"

Gunning for multiple resurrections per game will probably make the pilot decently swingy and expensive. Otherwise we could drop a lot of the marker mechanics, and have her auto-resurrect the mech just once. Might streamline the whole thing. Lemme think...


Quote:
OVERWATCH: MEKA PILOT
You may draft one other Hana Song that is Large. For the remainder of the game, that figure is considered to be D.Va's Meka. If you do, D.Va starts the game on this card. When D.Va's Meka is destroyed, place D.Va on any unoccupied space within 3 spaces of her Mech's original placement. At the start of each of your turns, if D.Va is not destroyed, you may move any Order Markers on this card to her Meka's card.

CALL MEKA
Once per game, if D.Va's Meka is destroyed, at the end of the round you may remove all wound markers from the Meka's Army Card, place D.Va on this card, and place the Meka on the space previously occupied by D.Va. Figures moved by this special power do not take any leaving engagement attacks.

NERF THIS!
If D.Va's Meka would be destroyed, you may instead use Nerf This!. Roll 3 unblockable attack dice against each figure within 3 clear sight spaces of D.Va's Meka, one at a time. After using Nerf This! destroy D.Va's Meka.
We all have some different design philosophies, so this is probably the direction I personally would go. A single, basically guaranteed revival (Unless we can snipe the pilot of course), and cut the marker mechanic to lose the extra hardware.

Of course, I know nothing of this series and any thematic notes you're trying to hit. But there's also something to be said about simplicity and making streamlined cards that are fun to play rather than hitting every possible theme.
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  #19  
Old March 25th, 2022, 12:23 PM
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Re: The Book of D.Va (Pilot) - Breathing

That’s way too fast for the resurrection to just automatically be at the end of the round and it really happens multiple times per game. The whole thing is that she has to survive long enough to get her Meka back.
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  #20  
Old March 25th, 2022, 12:29 PM
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Re: The Book of D.Va (Pilot) - Breathing

To be fair, if you’re a bad to okay player (like me) your Pilot is dying about 75% of the time before you get your mech back. It only happens so many times because people in Overwatch respawn.

I get what LP is saying. Bringing back a decent figure like the MEKA nultiple times per game is gonna be swingy and costly. But I also like there being a “goal” to using Pilot D.Va. In LP’s version, I don’t really have any incentive to take a turn with her, which kinda makes her feel a bit pointless if that makes sense?
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  #21  
Old March 25th, 2022, 12:35 PM
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Re: The Book of D.Va (Pilot) - Breathing

Not sure what you mean by too fast? If her meka blows up on OM1, then you have the rest of the round to try to kill her if you want. I just might not target the Meka on OM3.

If the Meka was supposed to be revived multiple times every game, I might have pushed for it to be a weaker design. The potential could make the pilot pretty swingy is all I'm saying, and she'll have to bear the brunt of the cost. I kinda assumed a pilot wound be a light fun touch, not such a potential huge impact of a game.

And all that said, I wouldn't want to take a turn with her anyway, since it's so risky and low power. So while my concerns of her being swingy are still there, basically most of the time you'll still just get that one single resurrection anyway, so why not just cut out all the extraneous hardware and keep the card simple and streamlined? The idea of drafting the pilot that gives your mech a second life is pretty cool. I think with everything else it's a bit messy, and at worst it's pointless, and at best it's super swingy and will raise her cost.
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  #22  
Old March 26th, 2022, 09:02 AM
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Re: The Book of D.Va (Pilot) - Breathing

MEKA is the unit she works in, the suits are called mechs. MEKA stands for Mobile Ex-Force of the Korean Army. I’ve just been using MEKA since I figured "Call Mech" might be too generic if something else wanted it in the future.

My aim is for one "free" mech, then you have to fight for more, like in Overwatch. She’s one of my most played in Overwatch, from my experience the pilot struggles to stay around without support unless she’s detonated the mech. We can remove the pilot heal, and if there is concern of her getting the mech back too much then the revive can be reduced to once a game or something. I’d want to see the revives tested though, because I can’t see having to work for 3 markers being easy.

So many armies take multiple turns and so many figures get multiple attacks that I didn't see Nerf This! giving the markers to be that much of a problem? She's usually going to be near her team so Nerf This! could likely hit allies, and then if you've got a follow up turn or attack you could likely take her out anyway. Any de-mechs after that, it's taking a round to get it back. A lot of time to invest into someone so squishy, but rewarding if it pans out.

I'm not keen on the mech coming back out of her own volition. Much rather her make the choice, have to earn it, and make her overall a lot more interactive. The current set up has some decision making of where and when to move her to get the most out of Nerf This!, and then playing carefully if you want to get the mech back. I don’t want the pilot to just be an extra life. In Overwatch if she wants a mech back when she hasn’t used the self-destruct, she has to get stuck in and fight to charge it up again. I want to replicate that because it’s more fun than spending a turn to move her out of the fight to then wait for the end of the round.
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  #23  
Old March 26th, 2022, 10:44 AM
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Re: The Book of D.Va (Pilot) - Breathing

Fwiw, I think there's some real value in just sending this thing to playtesting and working on it from there. We'll probably have to feel it out no matter what.

But to keep the conversation going, I do think removing the Pilot heal is a good idea - it loses out on game accuracy, sure, but it makes a little more sense from a "realism" perspective and I think it'll prove less frustrating. If the enemy scores 2 wounds on Pilot D.Va but can't finish her off before she summons the mech, their progress isn't "undone" and they can finish Pilot D.Va off more easily next time. With that change though, I wouldn't mind her having 4 life.

We have a design in sanctum we're currently working on that kinda borrows the same "revival" mechanics as Master Mold - remove a numbered OM on the Army Card at the start of the round to bring something back. Wonder if there's anything worth working with there?
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  #24  
Old March 26th, 2022, 01:14 PM
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Re: The Book of D.Va (Pilot) - Breathing

Yeah I'd like to get this to testing ASAP with some tweaks. To me the designs in a good spot, just needs tweaks to make sure she's not too good or not worth drafting. I don't think she's in the same spot the mech was in to start with where she needed quite a bit of work.

Could potentially have the revive tied to the X OM before taking a turn? She's going to be having it anyway, and maybe Nerf This! places a second one on her card for that round so she can revive it for free.

I still think I prefer the markers though. I get that it's more mechanical and wordy, but I think it just works a bit better for what we're wanting here, and feels a bit like an ultimate.

Quote:
NAME = D.VA
SECRET IDENTITY = HANA SONG

SPECIES = HUMAN
UNIQUENESS = UNIQUE HERO
CLASS = PILOT
PERSONALITY = COMPETITIVE

SIZE/HEIGHT = MEDIUM 4

LIFE = 4

MOVE = 5
RANGE = 6
ATTACK = 3
DEFENSE = 3

POINTS = ???


OVERWATCH: MEKA PILOT
You may draft one other Hana Song that is Large. For the remainder of the game, that figure is considered to be D.Va's Mech. If you do, D.Va starts the game on this card. At the start of each of your turns, if D.Va is not destroyed, you may move any Order Markers on this card to her Mech's card. When D.Va's Mech is destroyed, place D.Va on any unoccupied space within 3 spaces of her Mech's original placement.

CALL MECH
After D.Va attacks an opponent's figure, place a Pink MEKA Marker on this Army Card. Before revealing a numbered Order Marker on a Hana Song card, if there are 3 MEKA Markers on this card, you may remove all Wound Markers from D.Va's Mech's card, all MEKA Markers from this card, and switch D.Va with her Mech. Figures moved by this special power do not take any leaving engagement attacks.

NERF THIS!
Once per game, if D.Va's Mech would be destroyed, you may instead use Nerf This!. Roll 3 unblockable attack dice against each figure within 3 clear sight spaces of D.Va's Mech, one at a time. After using Nerf This!, place 3 MEKA Markers on this card and destroy D.Va's Mech.
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