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C3G Legacy Archive of all the original discussions and workshops from the first stage of C3G.


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  #17125  
Old November 6th, 2015, 09:13 PM
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Re: Public Design Post
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Originally Posted by laughing matter View Post
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Originally Posted by Lazy Orang View Post
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Originally Posted by laughing matter View Post
Also here's an X order marker based Insurgency Tactician. BTW I have the "on cards in your army that are still in play" clause to encourage playing with Oracle, since they should be working together.

INSURGENCY TACTICIAN
After revealing a numbered Order Marker on this Army Card you control, instead of taking a turn with this figure you may reveal an "X" Order Marker on this card and take a turn with any other Unique Hero you control. After an opponent reveals an Order Marker and before that opponent takes a turn, you may may reveal an "X" Order Marker on this card and rearrange any unrevealed Order Markers on cards in your army that are still in play.
Bugger, I've just realised I misread this last night - obviously tired, when I mentioned how broken I thought it was I thought it was full bonding, not instead of taking a turn with Batman. I really don't think this is OP now - good, yes, but not OP. Since it's once per round and tied to the X, I'm almost wondering if full bonding may be a good idea to make it more interesting, but that could be a bit too far on the strong side - it certainly makes it a more tempting choice vs. the Order Marker movement, which I think is the one I'd use every time right now.
I may have been affected by tiredness as well. I can see a couple of things in that power that I want to change already, including making Order Marker rearranging more enticing to use. Maybe if I made it require you to reveal a numbered Order Marker instead of an X.

i.e.
Quote:
INSURGENCY TACTICIAN
After revealing a numbered Order Marker on this Army Card and, instead of taking a turn with this figure you may reveal an "X" Order Marker on this card and take a turn with any other Unique Hero you control. After an opponent reveals an Order Marker and before that opponent takes a turn, you may may reveal a numbered Order Marker on this card and rearrange any Order Markers on cards in your army that are still in play.
Wait - how does giving up one of your turns make it more enticing? That does the opposite, surely.

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Originally Posted by laughing matter View Post
I decided to go with rolling defense, instead of canceling the attack. Anything else I could do to rein it in further?

ELIMINATING CONFLICT
If a friendly figure would roll defense dice against an attack, instead you must move High Councilor Superman, or any Unique Hero you control within 3 spaces of Superman, adjacent to the attacking figure, if possible. If you do, the attacking figure receives one wound, the chosen Unique Hero must roll defense and take any resulting wounds from the attack instead of the friendly figure. When a Unique Hero you control is moved using Eliminating Conflict, that Unique Hero will take all leaving engagement attacks.
Considering how tough Superman is, I'm thinking that this is still a bit too strong - he'll be able to shrug most attacks off. The only real way I can think of beating this is to tie up Superman and take advantage of the leaving engagement strikes (again, I like the mirroring here - it's like a combination of Superman vI and vIII's savior powers gone dark). Maybe roll an unblockable die against the figure doing the saving? I don't know, it's difficult this one, but I think it has too much potential to give up on.
There's plenty of good figures to tie down with. Blob, Clayface, Doc Ock,
Judge Fear, Living Mummy, Metallo, Poison Ivy, and Wonder Woman all come to mind. Plus there are figures who can take him off of the board entirely like Angstrom Levy, and Cloak. I guess what I'm trying to say is that there seem to be a lot of good options for that strategy.
I was mainly thinking entice him into moving to save figures while he's already engaged, thus dealing free wounds as through leaving engagements - basically the standard Superman vI busting tactic.
Quote:
Maybe rolling an unblockable attack die instead of giving the attacking figure an automatic wound would be a better idea. I agree though, this is one that's too cool to just throw away.
Yeah, that's probably more balanced. Part of me thinks that you should change it some way so that it doesn't trigger all the time and it's more tempting to make the attacks in the first place, but I'm not sure how.

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  #17126  
Old November 6th, 2015, 10:25 PM
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Re: Public Design Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazy Orang View Post
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Originally Posted by laughing matter View Post
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Originally Posted by Lazy Orang View Post
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Originally Posted by laughing matter View Post
Also here's an X order marker based Insurgency Tactician. BTW I have the "on cards in your army that are still in play" clause to encourage playing with Oracle, since they should be working together.

INSURGENCY TACTICIAN
After revealing a numbered Order Marker on this Army Card you control, instead of taking a turn with this figure you may reveal an "X" Order Marker on this card and take a turn with any other Unique Hero you control. After an opponent reveals an Order Marker and before that opponent takes a turn, you may may reveal an "X" Order Marker on this card and rearrange any unrevealed Order Markers on cards in your army that are still in play.
Bugger, I've just realised I misread this last night - obviously tired, when I mentioned how broken I thought it was I thought it was full bonding, not instead of taking a turn with Batman. I really don't think this is OP now - good, yes, but not OP. Since it's once per round and tied to the X, I'm almost wondering if full bonding may be a good idea to make it more interesting, but that could be a bit too far on the strong side - it certainly makes it a more tempting choice vs. the Order Marker movement, which I think is the one I'd use every time right now.
I may have been affected by tiredness as well. I can see a couple of things in that power that I want to change already, including making Order Marker rearranging more enticing to use. Maybe if I made it require you to reveal a numbered Order Marker instead of an X.

i.e.
Quote:
INSURGENCY TACTICIAN
After revealing a numbered Order Marker on this Army Card and, instead of taking a turn with this figure you may reveal an "X" Order Marker on this card and take a turn with any other Unique Hero you control. After an opponent reveals an Order Marker and before that opponent takes a turn, you may may reveal a numbered Order Marker on this card and rearrange any Order Markers on cards in your army that are still in play.
Wait - how does giving up one of your turns make it more enticing? That does the opposite, surely.
You reveal the Order Marker, but you don't have to remove it. You should still be able to take that turn though, right?

Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by laughing matter View Post
I decided to go with rolling defense, instead of canceling the attack. Anything else I could do to rein it in further?

ELIMINATING CONFLICT
If a friendly figure would roll defense dice against an attack, instead you must move High Councilor Superman, or any Unique Hero you control within 3 spaces of Superman, adjacent to the attacking figure, if possible. If you do, the attacking figure receives one wound, the chosen Unique Hero must roll defense and take any resulting wounds from the attack instead of the friendly figure. When a Unique Hero you control is moved using Eliminating Conflict, that Unique Hero will take all leaving engagement attacks.
Considering how tough Superman is, I'm thinking that this is still a bit too strong - he'll be able to shrug most attacks off. The only real way I can think of beating this is to tie up Superman and take advantage of the leaving engagement strikes (again, I like the mirroring here - it's like a combination of Superman vI and vIII's savior powers gone dark). Maybe roll an unblockable die against the figure doing the saving? I don't know, it's difficult this one, but I think it has too much potential to give up on.
There's plenty of good figures to tie down with. Blob, Clayface, Doc Ock,
Judge Fear, Living Mummy, Metallo, Poison Ivy, and Wonder Woman all come to mind. Plus there are figures who can take him off of the board entirely like Angstrom Levy, and Cloak. I guess what I'm trying to say is that there seem to be a lot of good options for that strategy.
I was mainly thinking entice him into moving to save figures while he's already engaged, thus dealing free wounds as through leaving engagements - basically the standard Superman vI busting tactic.
Quote:
Maybe rolling an unblockable attack die instead of giving the attacking figure an automatic wound would be a better idea. I agree though, this is one that's too cool to just throw away.
Yeah, that's probably more balanced. Part of me thinks that you should change it some way so that it doesn't trigger all the time and it's more tempting to make the attacks in the first place, but I'm not sure how.
Maybe I could make it activate whenever an attacking figure rolls a skull, so that Superman's not beating up on figures that completely flop on their attack.
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  #17127  
Old November 6th, 2015, 10:54 PM
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Lazy Orang Lazy Orang is offline
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Re: Public Design Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by laughing matter View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazy Orang View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by laughing matter View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazy Orang View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by laughing matter View Post
Also here's an X order marker based Insurgency Tactician. BTW I have the "on cards in your army that are still in play" clause to encourage playing with Oracle, since they should be working together.

INSURGENCY TACTICIAN
After revealing a numbered Order Marker on this Army Card you control, instead of taking a turn with this figure you may reveal an "X" Order Marker on this card and take a turn with any other Unique Hero you control. After an opponent reveals an Order Marker and before that opponent takes a turn, you may may reveal an "X" Order Marker on this card and rearrange any unrevealed Order Markers on cards in your army that are still in play.
Bugger, I've just realised I misread this last night - obviously tired, when I mentioned how broken I thought it was I thought it was full bonding, not instead of taking a turn with Batman. I really don't think this is OP now - good, yes, but not OP. Since it's once per round and tied to the X, I'm almost wondering if full bonding may be a good idea to make it more interesting, but that could be a bit too far on the strong side - it certainly makes it a more tempting choice vs. the Order Marker movement, which I think is the one I'd use every time right now.
I may have been affected by tiredness as well. I can see a couple of things in that power that I want to change already, including making Order Marker rearranging more enticing to use. Maybe if I made it require you to reveal a numbered Order Marker instead of an X.

i.e.
Quote:
INSURGENCY TACTICIAN
After revealing a numbered Order Marker on this Army Card and, instead of taking a turn with this figure you may reveal an "X" Order Marker on this card and take a turn with any other Unique Hero you control. After an opponent reveals an Order Marker and before that opponent takes a turn, you may may reveal a numbered Order Marker on this card and rearrange any Order Markers on cards in your army that are still in play.
Wait - how does giving up one of your turns make it more enticing? That does the opposite, surely.
You reveal the Order Marker, but you don't have to remove it. You should still be able to take that turn though, right?
You have to reveal an OM to take a turn - if it's already revealed, you can't take the turn (I think).
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by laughing matter View Post
I decided to go with rolling defense, instead of canceling the attack. Anything else I could do to rein it in further?

ELIMINATING CONFLICT
If a friendly figure would roll defense dice against an attack, instead you must move High Councilor Superman, or any Unique Hero you control within 3 spaces of Superman, adjacent to the attacking figure, if possible. If you do, the attacking figure receives one wound, the chosen Unique Hero must roll defense and take any resulting wounds from the attack instead of the friendly figure. When a Unique Hero you control is moved using Eliminating Conflict, that Unique Hero will take all leaving engagement attacks.
Considering how tough Superman is, I'm thinking that this is still a bit too strong - he'll be able to shrug most attacks off. The only real way I can think of beating this is to tie up Superman and take advantage of the leaving engagement strikes (again, I like the mirroring here - it's like a combination of Superman vI and vIII's savior powers gone dark). Maybe roll an unblockable die against the figure doing the saving? I don't know, it's difficult this one, but I think it has too much potential to give up on.
There's plenty of good figures to tie down with. Blob, Clayface, Doc Ock,
Judge Fear, Living Mummy, Metallo, Poison Ivy, and Wonder Woman all come to mind. Plus there are figures who can take him off of the board entirely like Angstrom Levy, and Cloak. I guess what I'm trying to say is that there seem to be a lot of good options for that strategy.
I was mainly thinking entice him into moving to save figures while he's already engaged, thus dealing free wounds as through leaving engagements - basically the standard Superman vI busting tactic.
Quote:
Maybe rolling an unblockable attack die instead of giving the attacking figure an automatic wound would be a better idea. I agree though, this is one that's too cool to just throw away.
Yeah, that's probably more balanced. Part of me thinks that you should change it some way so that it doesn't trigger all the time and it's more tempting to make the attacks in the first place, but I'm not sure how.
Maybe I could make it activate whenever an attacking figure rolls a skull, so that Superman's not beating up on figures that completely flop on their attack.
But that doesn't make it more tempting to attack - if you roll a skull, Supes or one of his allies swoop in, if you don't, it's not like you managed to do anything by attacking anyway. What this needs is a D20 requirement, or the requirement to use the X, or something.

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  #17128  
Old November 7th, 2015, 01:27 AM
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Re: Public Design Post
D20 sounds best mechanically, but thematically Superman's followers should be following him almost without question. Sure a couple of guys are concerned with the killing, but Superman inspires so much confidence that they do it anyway. If Superman is OK with killing, then it's justified. Superman serves as their moral compass, but he's been corrupted. If we go D20 I don't want the roll to be too high, even if it's a powerful ability, it doesn't make sense for characters to question Superman often. In fact

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  #17129  
Old November 7th, 2015, 03:40 PM
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Re: Public Design Post
@dok if you reveal a numbered Order Marker, but don't remove it do you still get to take that turn?

Quote:
INSURGENCY TACTICIAN
After revealing a numbered Order Marker on this Army Card and, instead of taking a turn with this figure you may reveal an "X" Order Marker on this card and take a turn with any other Unique Hero you control. After an opponent reveals an Order Marker and before that opponent takes a turn, you may may reveal a numbered Order Marker on this card and rearrange any Order Markers on cards in your army that are still in play.
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  #17130  
Old November 7th, 2015, 04:51 PM
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Re: Public Design Post
OMs are not normally removed when revealed, but revealing an OM means that OM can't be revealed again that round, so it can't be used to kick off a turn.
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  #17131  
Old November 7th, 2015, 05:02 PM
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Re: Public Design Post
Well that's unfortunate. Maybe I should just make the power allow you to rearrange your OMs after you reveal one, but before you take a turn.

Quote:
INSURGENCY TACTICIAN
After revealing a numbered Order Marker on this Army Card and, instead of taking a turn with this figure you may reveal an "X" Order Marker on this card and take a turn with any other Unique Hero you control. After revealing an Order Marker on this card, and before taking a turn, you may may rearrange any Order Markers on cards in your army that are still in play.
EDIT: I just realized that the current wording might allow you to reveal an OM on Batman, then move that OM to another card and take a turn with that card. Am I correct?
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  #17132  
Old November 7th, 2015, 05:23 PM
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Re: Public Design Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by laughing matter View Post
Well that's unfortunate. Maybe I should just make the power allow you to rearrange your OMs after you reveal one, but before you take a turn.

Quote:
INSURGENCY TACTICIAN
After revealing a numbered Order Marker on this Army Card and, instead of taking a turn with this figure you may reveal an "X" Order Marker on this card and take a turn with any other Unique Hero you control. After revealing an Order Marker on this card, and before taking a turn, you may may rearrange any Order Markers on cards in your army that are still in play.
EDIT: I just realized that the current wording might allow you to reveal an OM on Batman, then move that OM to another card and take a turn with that card. Am I correct?
Hmm... I'm not sure. One way to cut off that potential loophole is to make it rearrange unrevealed OMs early (which also prevents some weird tricks, like moving a revealed OM to Cap's card to trigger Avengers Assemble). Honestly, though, I preferred it when you revealed the X for it - I'm worried this may be too powerful, and I liked the tension of having to make a choice each round (barring Loki).

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  #17133  
Old November 7th, 2015, 07:28 PM
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Re: Public Design Post
Changing it to unrevealed Order Markers would solve the issue of that cheesiness as well. I don't think the OM rearranging will be as powerful as Commander Rodgers, since his is "At the beginning of your turn" and this one is "After revealing an Order Marker on this Army Card" forcing you to have an OM on Batman to rearrange OMs.

INSURGENCY TACTICIAN
After revealing a numbered Order Marker on this Army Card and, instead of taking a turn with this figure you may reveal an "X" Order Marker on this card and take a turn with any other Unique Hero you control. After revealing an Order Marker on this card, and before taking a turn, you may may rearrange any unrevealed Order Markers on cards in your army that are still in play.
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  #17134  
Old November 7th, 2015, 08:52 PM
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Re: Public Design Post
Wouldn't most of those versions (if not all) of Working My Day Job let him transform from adult cop Dick Grayson to pre-teen sidekick Robin?
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  #17135  
Old November 7th, 2015, 09:37 PM
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Re: Public Design Post
He should probably only be allowed to turn into nightwing, yeah. I always thought of Robin being 13-15, and Nightwing is in his early to mid 20's. In fact, I'd say that's about what it is in the New52.

By my estimate Batman adopted Dick when he was around 12-13 , he left the nest with the Titans at around 16-18. Then Jason Todd became Robin, and died a year or two after. Then Tim Drake became Red Robin, Jason Todd came back to life, and trained for a few years. (I'm assuming Jason and Dick to be around a year or so apart in age). With Tim as Red Robin, Dick became Nightwing at around 18-19 and has been that way for almost as long as he was Robin. At around 21 or so Jason returned to Gotham as the Red Hood for revenge. Then, probably within the same year Damian shows up, and dies soon after. This is all a guess though, and I probably have it wrong.
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  #17136  
Old November 7th, 2015, 09:39 PM
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Re: Public Design Post
Originally Robin was portrayed as being 12. (I believe Damian was 10 when he showed up).
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