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C3G Legacy Library This is the archive for all the designs released in the original era of C3G. Feel free to post any figure specific questions in their individual books.

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  #121  
Old January 8th, 2020, 06:18 PM
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Re: The Book of X-O Manowar (Edit/Design/Whatever Phase)

Okay, Bloodshot posted, officially moved into "flux" phase. I'll run down everyone's thoughts:

@Lord Pyre : Markers are one way to interpret his armor, but not the only one, and we're setting the aesthetic here. The theme of the markers being lost (and him taking wounds) is that he overloads the armor with sheer force of will - and the armor has to compensate. There's a lot of those "don't do this Aric, it will break" followed by "Aric it broke, now let me fix it" stuff with his armor... not in words, the armor doesn't usually talk, but in spirit. It's physical damage to Aric that the armor is spending resources on, not anything external.

@LordVenoc : That's part of my problem, is that on paper it's "early Aric," but on the battlefield it's "stay back and play it cool" Aric, which is a major mismatch. I'd be fine with one or the other, but he's in-between right now. I agree that lack of player agency is an issue.

@MrNobody : Yeah, no problem with trimming the number of attacks, or changing around theme tweaks like that... but the more you trim the more "basic" he is.

So, let's say we got back to basics here and trim.

NAME = X-O MANOWAR
SECRET IDENTITY = ARIC OF DACIA

SPECIES = HUMAN
UNIQUENESS = UNIQUE HERO
CLASS = CHAMPION
PERSONALITY = PROUD

SIZE/HEIGHT = MEDIUM 5

LIFE = 5

MOVE = 9
RANGE = 4
ATTACK = 7
DEFENSE = 7

POINTS = 370

SHEER FORCE

After attacking an adjacent figure with X-O Manowar, if the defending figure rolled defense dice and did not receive any wounds, you must attack that figure again. If X-O Manowar attacks three times in a single turn, place a Wound Marker on this card and his turn immediately ends.

RIGHTEOUS RAGE
Once per round, when a friendly Unique Hero is destroyed by an attack, if X-O Manowar is within 4 clear sight spaces of the attacking figure, you may roll an unblockable attack dice against that figure.

SUPER STRENGTH
FLYING

-----

I think Sheer Force is fine here, and an auto-wound (20% of his life) is enough to discourage builds that force those three attacks. Righteous Rage is much smaller and much less of a centerpiece to the design.

If I'm looking at this holistically, both as a standalone design and as someone that works with the other Unity team members:

- I would cut Righteous Rage. It's non-interactive, still a big part of his cost, and the figure it works best with (Eternal Warrior) isn't going to be dying all that often in his ideal build.
- I'd like some form of support power that draws enemy fire, as he's (relatively) easy to ignore otherwise.
- I would like a staple "Armor" power for him, likely something that heals or prevents damage, as that's what I think is most interesting about it (his body is "replaced" by armor as it heals him, making them kind of symbiotic).

Thinking of his teammates:

- Ninjak likes friendly figures receiving wounds and tied down figures for his SA; Ninjak provides some OM flexibility with Tactical Interpose.
- Eternal Warrior likes figures that hang around and let him return multiple times; Eternal Warrior provides tiedown and free disengage.
- Livewire likes figures with powers that trigger on movement; Livewire provides attacks for figures with free movement and tiedown.

So, the sort of powers that would be great:

- A way for Aric to take a lot of wounds and survive a long time
- A way to benefit from units being tied down
- A way to benefit from free movement and/or move freely

The first aligns pretty easily with some sort of armor power. A few brainstorms:

SHANHARA ARMOR
After taking a turn with X-O Manowar, roll a combat die for each Wound Marker on this card. For every shield rolled, remove a Wound Marker.

SHANHARA ARMOR 10
Immediately after X-O Manowar receives a wound, roll the 20-sided die. Subtract 2 from your roll for each Wound Marker on this card. If you roll a 10 or higher, remove a Wound Marker from this card. If you roll a 20, remove an additional Wound Marker.

VISIGOTH COURAGE
Friendly figures within 4 clear sight spaces of X-O Manowar roll one additional die against figures leaving an engagement with them. Visigoth Courage affects X-O Manowar.

CARRY THAT WEIGHT
After moving and before attacking with another Unique Hero, if that Hero left an engagement with an opponent's figure, you may move X-O Manowar, as long as he ends his move engaged with that figure. If you do, that Unique Hero cannot attack this turn.
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  #122  
Old January 8th, 2020, 06:36 PM
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Re: The Book of X-O Manowar (Edit/Design/Whatever Phase)

I will say I liked the marker mechanic. It translated well to me and allowed a hook for designs that wanted to synergize with him. I think that “symbiosis” concept you mentioned could actually play really well into the marker mechanic as well. Like a healing factor that restored a marker when you removed a wound. Something like the Marker Armor power, Sheer Force, and a light leadership power would seem really cool to me. But again, I don’t know the character.
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  #123  
Old January 8th, 2020, 07:07 PM
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Re: The Book of X-O Manowar (Edit/Design/Whatever Phase)

Yeah I don't think the markers are innately necessary. Its a fun concept, but the bond is more in line with Eddie Brock and Venom than like Hal and his ring.

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny139 View Post
SHANHARA ARMOR
After taking a turn with X-O Manowar, roll a combat die for each Wound Marker on this card. For every shield rolled, remove a Wound Marker.
I dig the simplicity of this one. Might tweak the name a bit to get the theme of his body being replaced by the armor across, but that's a minor quibble.

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny139 View Post
SHANHARA ARMOR 10
Immediately after X-O Manowar receives a wound, roll the 20-sided die. Subtract 2 from your roll for each Wound Marker on this card. If you roll a 10 or higher, remove a Wound Marker from this card. If you roll a 20, remove an additional Wound Marker.
I like the immediacy here a bit more than the as he takes turns. But, the last line is impossible as written. If you subtract two, he can't possibly get a 20.

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny139 View Post
VISIGOTH COURAGE
Friendly figures within 4 clear sight spaces of X-O Manowar roll one additional die against figures leaving an engagement with them. Visigoth Courage affects X-O Manowar.
This is a decent light-touch sort of thing. Might be hilarious when stacked with Warrior Engagement folks who already get an extra. A bit counter-intuitive to Livewire's tie down, but beneficial for the general tie-down of Eternal Warrior.

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny139 View Post
CARRY THAT WEIGHT
After moving and before attacking with another Unique Hero, if that Hero left an engagement with an opponent's figure, you may move X-O Manowar, as long as he ends his move engaged with that figure. If you do, that Unique Hero cannot attack this turn.
[/QUOTE]

Just an FYI, that figure having moved would prevent the bonus attack of Livewire. Her ability is basically sacrificing your move for someone else who moved to get an attack. It doesn't seem like that's what you're going for though. This may actually work super strangely with Livewire's last power. Not fully seeing the intent or feel we're going for here I guess.
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  #124  
Old January 10th, 2020, 03:57 PM
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Re: The Book of X-O Manowar (Edit/Design/Whatever Phase)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrNobody View Post
I will say I liked the marker mechanic. It translated well to me and allowed a hook for designs that wanted to synergize with him. I think that “symbiosis” concept you mentioned could actually play really well into the marker mechanic as well. Like a healing factor that restored a marker when you removed a wound. Something like the Marker Armor power, Sheer Force, and a light leadership power would seem really cool to me. But again, I don’t know the character.
I think the problem, here as with the Lanterns, is that wounds don't matter - just the last wound. Doesn't matter if you win with 1 Life left or 10 Life left, it just matters that you won. So burning markers to heal is usually a bad deal, since +1 to all stats (except life) is more valuable than +1 life. Yeah, Aric is all healed up, but he's wimpy now, so who cares.

That being said - maybe the right move is to weaken the markers some? Give him the following stats: 8M/1R/7A/4D, and have his markers give +1 to Range and Defense. That way you'll want to make that trade more often - you're not losing offensive potential.

@LordVenoc : Very thorough, thanks! You can tell they're all off the top of my head.

Armor powers: yeah, both work I think, in theory. I think the immediacy is fun but way wordier.

The LEA thing is tough with Livewire yeah. I know I want people to stay engaged with Gilad so I guess I just sort of suggested it twice! Redundancy never hurts though...

Not sure if I'm misunderstanding the first pip on Livewire or you're misunderstanding the fourth one. The first pip is after taking a turn, a figure that moved but didn't attack gets to attack - it doesn't have any restrictions on the person you revealed an OM on, I don't believe.

It would definitely stack with the third pip, which wasn't intentional but isn't necessarily a bad thing... if all four are in a pod, all four could move.

-----

Definitely have something on my mind grapes now, but as a general query, do people prefer markers or no markers here?
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  #125  
Old January 10th, 2020, 04:03 PM
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Re: The Book of X-O Manowar (Edit/Design/Whatever Phase)

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny139 View Post
Not sure if I'm misunderstanding the first pip on Livewire or you're misunderstanding the fourth one. The first pip is after taking a turn, a figure that moved but didn't attack gets to attack - it doesn't have any restrictions on the person you revealed an OM on, I don't believe.
I'm misremembering drafts. Original draft of Livewire had pip one require the first person to have not moved for the second to get the attack. Not sure where that vanished, but apparently people are on board with it?
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  #126  
Old January 10th, 2020, 05:44 PM
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Re: The Book of X-O Manowar (Edit/Design/Whatever Phase)

I’ve never had a problem with the way Lanterns work. They’re tanks; designed to soak up lots of attacks. Sure, the opponent can completely neuter your Hal, but they have to waste a ton of resources to do it, and that keeps the fire off of your other dudes.

Maybe that’s not right here, considering Unity already has a Eternal Warrior.

Just a thought, what if he was modeled off of something like Blue Beetle or Toxin? I’m thinking that like Blue Beetle he has a sort of “modular” ability, but maybe the opponent has the ability to **** him off and force him to invest more in his attack?
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  #127  
Old January 11th, 2020, 09:19 AM
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Re: The Book of X-O Manowar (Edit/Design/Whatever Phase)

Thematically he does seem similar to Blue Beetle (Jaime Reyes). But that's just my vague outside impression of a character I don't know at all.

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  #128  
Old January 11th, 2020, 10:30 AM
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Re: The Book of X-O Manowar (Edit/Design/Whatever Phase)

If you went that route it might be interesting to let him burn markers to up melee attacks. Because I'd love to see the energy sword represented somewhere, because he uses it a lot:



And right now, there's not really a distinction in things. Just a thought though. Lack of obvious representation of it is not a dealbreaker for me by any means.
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  #129  
Old January 11th, 2020, 11:14 AM
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Re: The Book of X-O Manowar (Edit/Design/Whatever Phase)

Here’s what I was thinking as a loose brainstorm;
Quote:
X-O MANOWAR ARMOR
Start the game with 4 combat dice on this card. Before taking a turn with X-O Manowar, you may change the results of the dice. Add 1 to X-O’s Attack number for each skull on this card, 1 to his Defense number for each shield on this card, and 1 to his Move/Range numer for each blank on this card.

SHEER FORCE
After attacking an (adjacent?) figure with X-O, if that figure was not destroyed, you must, if possible, change a die result on this card from a shield or blank to a skull and attack that figure an additional time with X-O.

RIGHTEOUS RAGE/???
For whatever it’s worth I’ve been playing Beetle using dice instead of markers and I think it works better.

I do like LV’s idea of burning a marker (long-term boost) to get a short-term “sword” effect.
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  #130  
Old January 11th, 2020, 12:00 PM
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Re: The Book of X-O Manowar (Edit/Design/Whatever Phase)

I do like the mechanic there but I think it's pretty far removed from Aric - his armor isn't "modular" at all. It's more like your basic power suit or whatever, where its pretty much always online. It does go from "not broken" to "broken" over the course of a story, but I don't really remember any "reroute power to X from Y" type stuff.
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  #131  
Old January 11th, 2020, 07:16 PM
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Re: The Book of X-O Manowar (Edit/Design/Whatever Phase)

Okay, so people seem to be either okay with or in favor of markers, which is good for continuity here. I've put together a middle ground draft - something that's a reiteration of the current design, NOT a new design altogether.

NAME = X-O MANOWAR
SECRET IDENTITY = ARIC OF DACIA

SPECIES = HUMAN
UNIQUENESS = UNIQUE HERO
CLASS = CHAMPION
PERSONALITY = PROUD

SIZE/HEIGHT = MEDIUM 5

LIFE = 5

MOVE = 8
RANGE = 1
ATTACK = 7
DEFENSE = 4

POINTS = 400

SHANHARA ARMOR 3

Start the game with 3 blue X-O Markers on this card. X-O Manowar adds 1 to his Range and Defense numbers for each X-O Marker on this card. After X-O Manowar receives a wound, you may remove an X-O Marker from this card to remove up to 2 Wound Markers from this card.

SHEER FORCE
After attacking an adjacent figure with X-O Manowar, if the defending figure rolled defense dice and did not receive any wounds, you must attack that figure again. After attacking three times in a single turn, place a Wound Marker on this card and X-O Manowar's turn immediately ends.

KEEP UP THE PRESSURE
After moving and before attacking with another Unique Hero you control, if that Hero left an engagement with an opponent's figure, you may move X-O Manowar, as long as he ends his move engaged with that figure. If you do, that Unique Hero cannot attack this turn.

SUPER STRENGTH
FLYING

-----

What this draft keeps is the "head-against-the-wall" feel of his Sheer Force attack, the slow breakdown of his armor as he pushes himself to the limit, and the ability to protect your allies from afar. What it gets rid of is the motivation to keep him behind a screen sniping, the "feels bad" punishment of a powered-down Aric that loses his markers, and the more passive playstyle.

I'm not sold on Keep Up the Pressure, which in general I do think gives a bit of flexibility and works very well with Livewire. But maybe too narrow in scope? I'm open to alternative ideas.
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  #132  
Old January 14th, 2020, 11:06 AM
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Re: The Book of X-O Manowar (Edit/Design/Whatever Phase)

Sorry I vanished from this thread, I've been trying to keep on and gather thoughts and haven't gotten back to it until now.

Sheer Force is super cool and I'd love to keep it. Bare minimum we have that.

I've now read a few issues to get a feel for the character, and he's definitely an impulsive hot head, but this is obviously early on. I think something very cool would be to represent his past, as a leadership power.

Quote:
VISIGOTH RALLY
After moving X-O Manowar, you may move up to 4 figures you control 4 spaces. These figures must end their movement engaged to an enemy figure or adjacent to X-O Manowar.
I liked seeing him hit the Romans head on with a handful of loyal soldiers. That's what I have in my head there.

I really like the above armor power, different from Lanterns and thematically justified. I'm not a HUGE fan of Keep up the pressure, but it's not a hard no from me. I like what I have above instead of it, but that's based off of some very limited reading I've done.

Another thing that seems fairly thematic is riffing off of Defiant Fury from Lady Death. Could trigger it off of ally wounds instead of his own (Lady D is super selfish, Aric not as much. Both very hot headed!). I like a leadership power MORE, but that's another aspect of his character to could tap into if we want.

While I would love to see the sword represented, there's not really room for it, and there's much more interesting things we can do.
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