C3G Playtesting Strategies, Builds and Tips Thread

[Karat]

John Stewart is a Green Lantern and is listed as Green Lantern(John Stewart) in the books of index.

[IAmBatman]

Nice to see Zola getting some love. He's quirky and swingy, but I think he can be a lot of fun - especially if your D20 is hot!

[dok]

Zola was a very interesting piece when I threw him into my pool for the draft event.

I've recently come to a realization of sorts that there's a bit of a grand Rock-Paper-Scissors arrangement in C3G armies.

• "Paper" = armies that seek to maximize activations and dice. Most superteams fall here (Green Lanterns, Wrecking Crew, Warriors Three, etc). So do most Enchantress builds and generic synergy builds like Iron Patriot and Ms. Marvel.
  
  
• "Scissors" = armies that seek to disrupt and control their opponent's actions. Joker, Ozymandias, Mad Thinker, Puppet Master, Bizarro, Mastermind, Purple Man, Graviton, Magneto+Blob, Mr. Mxy, Angstrom, etc.
  
  
• "Rock" = armies that try to bypass the opponent's powers and just do their thing. Almost all event hero-based armies fit here (Dark Phoenix, Anti-Monitor, Surtur, Satanus). So do a few other builds like massed White Martians.

Of course, most armies have some elements of all of these. But one thing I would consider when building armies for testing is what kind of build maximizes the value of that unit. You should also be cognizant when you're testing it whether you're putting the army in a favorable matchup or not. Rock>Scissors>Paper>Rock, generally. (Of course when you just throw an army together on theme, it often doesn't fit neatly into one of these categories.)

[IAmBatman]

Very interesting analysis, dok! It seems like most folks are used to the "paper" armies (which tend to look good on paper as a result!) and most disturbed or disrupted (or encouraged to cry "broken") by the "scissor" armies. I think this has resulted in an interesting push forward for more of the "rock" armies.

[Tornado]

Nice perspective dok (and Bats). Thanks.

[Dysole]

I will say that on occasion it can go the other direction (Ozy for example can be a great counter to Anti-Monitor if Anti-Monitor can't get to him) but I generally agree with this (and also love me the crap out of scissors builds). I think one of the things with C3G that might be why several units may be needing review is that paper and rock builds are fairly easy to compile and test to see how they work (echoing what Bats said). Scissors builds tend to be a lot more sneaky and usually require mixing things that don't necessarily make sense but end up pulling off a lot of funky tricks. Just a thought.

~Dysole, mostly reiterating what others have said

[IAmBatman]

I think Rock armies are also a bit underplayed at the moment, which makes Scissor armies all the scarier.

[Dysole]

Originally Posted by IAmBatman

I think Rock armies are also a bit underplayed at the moment, which makes Scissor armies all the scarier.

Yeah, that's probably very true. I think there's only really one army I'd call a Rock army in the current format (two others that I think come close but not quite there), a lot of Paper and a few Scissor with a few hybrid Paper/Scissors leaning one end or the other.

~Dysole, calling it like he sees it

[Lord Pyre]

So for game balance, would it be good to make more "rock" units?

And I'm guessing Rocks have things like auto wounds and negation powers?


Great analysis!

[IAmBatman]

Maybe what we need are some better ideas for good Rock builds, then, as well as some more filling out of that part of the game (more examples and analysis of what types of units and combinations make Rock armies would be great to see to help us designers with that!).

[dok]

Originally Posted by Lord Pyre

So for game balance, would it be good to make more "rock" units?

I don't honestly think the raw numbers of army builds that can be made that fit each category makes a huge difference. I'd enjoy if there were things like large squads in C3G, I guess, but there are "Rock" armies available at most point totals if you look for them. Satanus is a perfect "Rock" figure and he's just 350 points, which fits into a lot of builds.

Originally Posted by Lord Pyre

And I'm guessing Rocks have things like auto wounds and negation powers?

Auto wounds are a very common feature, yes. Negation not as much - that's more of a scissors thing, generally.

Other common features are large/huge size (this eliminates most of the powers that can move your units) and mental shield/Event Hero immunity/intangibility.

[Dysole]

Rock armies have one BIG thing (Anti-Monitor, Surtur, Galactus, what have you). This BIG thing can absolutely wreck the board if left unchecked. A paper build which throws a lot of attacks (and big attacks) can take down the BIG thing because they can cut through it with all of their heavy attacks. A scissors build however tends to be much weaker and a lot of its tricks may not work on the BIG thing (e.g. throwing people next to Blob). dok might be able to phrase it more eloquently but that's how I understand Rock builds.

~Dysole, who actually throws Rock a decent amount in regular Rock Paper Scissors partially because he knows that it's considered a "bad" first play