Heroscapers
Go Back   Heroscapers > Official Classic HeroScape > Competitive Armies Discussion
Competitive Armies Discussion Discuss, critique, and build ideas for tournament-caliber armies.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #13  
Old September 16th, 2020, 03:58 PM
Vydar is the man's Avatar
Vydar is the man Vydar is the man is offline
 
Join Date: October 3, 2008
Location: USA - PA - Philadelphia
Posts: 649
Vydar is the man rolls all skulls baby! Vydar is the man rolls all skulls baby! Vydar is the man rolls all skulls baby! Vydar is the man rolls all skulls baby!
Re: The (Cheese) Gauntlet

Quote:
Originally Posted by OrcElfArmyOne View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vydar is the man View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by OrcElfArmyOne View Post
Bonding Melee:
4x Dwarves, Mogrimm, Arkmer
Why do you put Arkmer in with the dwarves at 450? I realize there is only 1 figure left, but I would run Me-Burq-Sa over Arkmer every time. Am I missing something?
Well, I donít think MBS is that great when heís not bonding. The reason he gets an A in my ratings is because he bonds with Romans and Death Chasers.

Further, Arkmer helps a lot in one of the toughest Dwarf matchups: Knights. 10th is bad too, but neither Arkmer nor MBS helps there. MBS really needs Raelin to compete with 10th at range. Arkmer also helps into Heavies, which is not irrelevant. Iím just not seeing a reason to take MBS over Arkmer with the current expected meta. I donít think non-bonding MBS is generally better than Arkmer for the points anyways, and I think the upsides of Arkmer are even more important with Dwarves than with other armies.
I guess I'm undervaluing Arkmer's utility in those melee matchups. I assume you send him up to a choke point and Engagement Strike everything you can, while you develop? Is that worth the 2 OMs that it takes to get him there? Or is he ranged support? My assumption is the former, because I think MBS is better for a single range attack than Arkmer. My choice of MBS was for being able to kite pretty well in the endgame. I agree that he isn't great when not bonded but with 14 threat range, and Paralyzing Stare he is a pretty decent cleanup unit for 50 points, something that Arkmer can't achieve.

Funnily enough, I just listened to the Bonding Melee episode of Casters of Valhalla, and I feel like I'm still undervaluing those units, as if I'm still in the 2010 metagame. It doesn't help I only own 1 squad of knights.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old September 16th, 2020, 04:46 PM
The_X_Marker's Avatar
The_X_Marker The_X_Marker is offline
...lest we all lose that 3rd turn mystery
 
Join Date: November 9, 2010
Location: USA-NY-Long Island-Nassau
Posts: 580
The_X_Marker wears ripped pants of awesomeness The_X_Marker wears ripped pants of awesomeness The_X_Marker wears ripped pants of awesomeness The_X_Marker wears ripped pants of awesomeness The_X_Marker wears ripped pants of awesomeness The_X_Marker wears ripped pants of awesomeness The_X_Marker wears ripped pants of awesomeness
Re: The (Cheese) Gauntlet

This thread has really helped me in quickly setting up soloscape games during quarantine.

I've had the cheese team essentially be an "AI," similar to the Gloomhaven "AI" for enemies. While it takes a lot of the strategic depth out of the other player, and while it makes it somewhat possible to use strategy to cheat the "AI" of the game, it feels alright for just passing the time playing again.

There's 1,000 threads on X army at X point value, but this is a standout for aggregating all of the top tier armies in one place.

Be polite: Don't put politics or religion in your signature!

My profile picture was taken with my first webcam...in 2007...
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old September 16th, 2020, 07:22 PM
vegietarian18's Avatar
vegietarian18 vegietarian18 is offline
Online HS Season 10 Champion
 
Join Date: September 5, 2011
Location: USA - IL - Peoria
Posts: 4,708
vegietarian18 is hot lava death! vegietarian18 is hot lava death! vegietarian18 is hot lava death! vegietarian18 is hot lava death! vegietarian18 is hot lava death! vegietarian18 is hot lava death! vegietarian18 is hot lava death! vegietarian18 is hot lava death! vegietarian18 is hot lava death! vegietarian18 is hot lava death! vegietarian18 is hot lava death! vegietarian18 is hot lava death! vegietarian18 is hot lava death! vegietarian18 is hot lava death!
Re: The (Cheese) Gauntlet

For Dwarves x4, Mogrimm for 450 with one figure left I would go Marro Warriors and sit three Dwarves.

Battle Reports: Comic / Gencon - Customs - Probability Calculator App

ONLINE CON 2020: July 31- August 2

Last edited by vegietarian18; September 16th, 2020 at 07:30 PM. Reason: just kidding, I would never sit 3 figures. I would go Dwarves x3, Darrak, Major Q9
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old September 17th, 2020, 01:41 AM
Cleon's Avatar
Cleon Cleon is online now
Baron of Beantown V
 
Join Date: April 25, 2007
Location: MA - Pittsfield
Posts: 4,418
Blog Entries: 4
Cleon is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla Cleon is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla Cleon is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla Cleon is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla Cleon is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla Cleon is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla Cleon is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla Cleon is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla Cleon is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla Cleon is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla
Re: The (Cheese) Gauntlet

^Dwarves + Q9 is really strong

I know I’m a huge Stinger fan, and I admit they’re in the mid to low end of the top tiers (hard to exactly say, since they’re so splashable, but a horde is probably closer to the low end), but I’m surprised Stinger horde+Raelin isn’t on the 500pt. or 450pt. lists. When I think of top tier cheese, Raelin+Stingers x7 comes to mind (or 6 and Isamu at 450). I concede it’s not the best army ever (before Matthias slaps me), but I still think it’s strong enough to be included. I’d stick it with the 4th Mass and 10th Reg horde categories.

It’s also a pretty tough discussion since there’s so many slight variants of top tier armies, and some of the conventionally ‘weaker’ variants might be better in particular metas (I guess that’s the overall discussion of competitive play... ). Like with the prevalence of melee nowadays, I’m pretty partial to running Charos with the 4th Mass, over more 4th Mass. But yeah, still a good idea to get a list of cheese builds to put armies to the test.

Also I don’t think Concan+PK’s x2 should be on the list......oh wait nevermind

Last edited by Cleon; September 17th, 2020 at 02:01 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old September 17th, 2020, 11:07 AM
vegietarian18's Avatar
vegietarian18 vegietarian18 is offline
Online HS Season 10 Champion
 
Join Date: September 5, 2011
Location: USA - IL - Peoria
Posts: 4,708
vegietarian18 is hot lava death! vegietarian18 is hot lava death! vegietarian18 is hot lava death! vegietarian18 is hot lava death! vegietarian18 is hot lava death! vegietarian18 is hot lava death! vegietarian18 is hot lava death! vegietarian18 is hot lava death! vegietarian18 is hot lava death! vegietarian18 is hot lava death! vegietarian18 is hot lava death! vegietarian18 is hot lava death! vegietarian18 is hot lava death! vegietarian18 is hot lava death!
Re: The (Cheese) Gauntlet

I think the classic Kaemon Raelin Stingers is way better than just horde Stingers. So Stingers x5, Raelin, Kaemon for 500. 7x Stingers is just overkill in my opinion, Stingers have a lot of bad matchups. What Stingers are best at is hero-killing, even without the Drain, and most armies don't have a ton of heroes you need to kill. 4x or 5x Stingers is enough to win the Greenscales matchup. Kaemon helps the Rats matchup a ton and the melee matchup a little bit. Alternatively you can even go 3x Rats 3x Stingers Kaemon Raelin for 500 which is a little low on commons but it's a nasty build.

Battle Reports: Comic / Gencon - Customs - Probability Calculator App

ONLINE CON 2020: July 31- August 2
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old September 17th, 2020, 11:27 AM
OrcElfArmyOne's Avatar
OrcElfArmyOne OrcElfArmyOne is offline
 
Join Date: August 6, 2011
Location: USA-CT-Hartford
Posts: 1,563
Images: 2
OrcElfArmyOne is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla OrcElfArmyOne is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla OrcElfArmyOne is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla OrcElfArmyOne is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla OrcElfArmyOne is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla OrcElfArmyOne is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla OrcElfArmyOne is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla OrcElfArmyOne is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla OrcElfArmyOne is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla
Re: The (Cheese) Gauntlet

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vydar is the man View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by OrcElfArmyOne View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vydar is the man View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by OrcElfArmyOne View Post
Bonding Melee:
4x Dwarves, Mogrimm, Arkmer
Why do you put Arkmer in with the dwarves at 450? I realize there is only 1 figure left, but I would run Me-Burq-Sa over Arkmer every time. Am I missing something?
Well, I donít think MBS is that great when heís not bonding. The reason he gets an A in my ratings is because he bonds with Romans and Death Chasers.

Further, Arkmer helps a lot in one of the toughest Dwarf matchups: Knights. 10th is bad too, but neither Arkmer nor MBS helps there. MBS really needs Raelin to compete with 10th at range. Arkmer also helps into Heavies, which is not irrelevant. Iím just not seeing a reason to take MBS over Arkmer with the current expected meta. I donít think non-bonding MBS is generally better than Arkmer for the points anyways, and I think the upsides of Arkmer are even more important with Dwarves than with other armies.
I guess I'm undervaluing Arkmer's utility in those melee matchups. I assume you send him up to a choke point and Engagement Strike everything you can, while you develop? Is that worth the 2 OMs that it takes to get him there? Or is he ranged support? My assumption is the former, because I think MBS is better for a single range attack than Arkmer. My choice of MBS was for being able to kite pretty well in the endgame. I agree that he isn't great when not bonded but with 14 threat range, and Paralyzing Stare he is a pretty decent cleanup unit for 50 points, something that Arkmer can't achieve.

Funnily enough, I just listened to the Bonding Melee episode of Casters of Valhalla, and I feel like I'm still undervaluing those units, as if I'm still in the 2010 metagame. It doesn't help I only own 1 squad of knights.
Thanks for listening!

Well, I think most people undervalue- or, at least, underplay- bonding melee. It's really just me and Matthias (Ken) that main bonding melee at the high level tourneys.

For Arkmer, I'd just save him for the endgame against Knights/Heavies. The problem for MBS is that threat range isn't a great measurement for kiting. If he was 6 move/8 range, he'd be comically better at kiting. 6 range just isn't enough against Knights/Heavies. Arkmer has the upside of Engagement Strike and 4 attack, which gives him much better odds than MBS. I don't think MBS is a bad choice, but I think Arkmer is very underutilized.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old September 17th, 2020, 11:28 AM
OrcElfArmyOne's Avatar
OrcElfArmyOne OrcElfArmyOne is offline
 
Join Date: August 6, 2011
Location: USA-CT-Hartford
Posts: 1,563
Images: 2
OrcElfArmyOne is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla OrcElfArmyOne is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla OrcElfArmyOne is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla OrcElfArmyOne is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla OrcElfArmyOne is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla OrcElfArmyOne is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla OrcElfArmyOne is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla OrcElfArmyOne is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla OrcElfArmyOne is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla
Re: The (Cheese) Gauntlet

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_X_Marker View Post
This thread has really helped me in quickly setting up soloscape games during quarantine.

I've had the cheese team essentially be an "AI," similar to the Gloomhaven "AI" for enemies. While it takes a lot of the strategic depth out of the other player, and while it makes it somewhat possible to use strategy to cheat the "AI" of the game, it feels alright for just passing the time playing again.

There's 1,000 threads on X army at X point value, but this is a standout for aggregating all of the top tier armies in one place.
Thanks for the kind words!

As long as the dummy army is making reasonable decisions, it's not a bad way to gain some experience.

Good to hear from you after so long! Hope you're well!
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old September 17th, 2020, 11:31 AM
OrcElfArmyOne's Avatar
OrcElfArmyOne OrcElfArmyOne is offline
 
Join Date: August 6, 2011
Location: USA-CT-Hartford
Posts: 1,563
Images: 2
OrcElfArmyOne is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla OrcElfArmyOne is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla OrcElfArmyOne is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla OrcElfArmyOne is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla OrcElfArmyOne is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla OrcElfArmyOne is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla OrcElfArmyOne is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla OrcElfArmyOne is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla OrcElfArmyOne is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla
Re: The (Cheese) Gauntlet

Quote:
Originally Posted by vegietarian18 View Post
I think the classic Kaemon Raelin Stingers is way better than just horde Stingers. So Stingers x5, Raelin, Kaemon for 500. 7x Stingers is just overkill in my opinion, Stingers have a lot of bad matchups. What Stingers are best at is hero-killing, even without the Drain, and most armies don't have a ton of heroes you need to kill. 4x or 5x Stingers is enough to win the Greenscales matchup. Kaemon helps the Rats matchup a ton and the melee matchup a little bit. Alternatively you can even go 3x Rats 3x Stingers Kaemon Raelin for 500 which is a little low on commons but it's a nasty build.
I agree, I don't think straight Stingers is as good as mixed Stingers. Updated with those two builds, thanks!
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old September 17th, 2020, 02:32 PM
Matthias Maccabeus's Avatar
Matthias Maccabeus Matthias Maccabeus is offline
Don't Need Range in the Knight-time & Gencon Main Event Champion - 2018
 
Join Date: April 10, 2007
Location: IA - Councilbama
Posts: 3,954
Matthias Maccabeus is hot lava death! Matthias Maccabeus is hot lava death! Matthias Maccabeus is hot lava death! Matthias Maccabeus is hot lava death! Matthias Maccabeus is hot lava death! Matthias Maccabeus is hot lava death! Matthias Maccabeus is hot lava death! Matthias Maccabeus is hot lava death! Matthias Maccabeus is hot lava death! Matthias Maccabeus is hot lava death! Matthias Maccabeus is hot lava death! Matthias Maccabeus is hot lava death! Matthias Maccabeus is hot lava death!
Re: The (Cheese) Gauntlet

Maybe someone just overlooked this in editing but I didn't see any chainfighters x 16 + Warden or chainfighters x 20 for the 500 point gauntlet.

Dragon Dice - (the 2nd best game there is) Learn to Play!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1h3q6...wujcr8vVf8e21G
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old September 17th, 2020, 02:35 PM
The_X_Marker's Avatar
The_X_Marker The_X_Marker is offline
...lest we all lose that 3rd turn mystery
 
Join Date: November 9, 2010
Location: USA-NY-Long Island-Nassau
Posts: 580
The_X_Marker wears ripped pants of awesomeness The_X_Marker wears ripped pants of awesomeness The_X_Marker wears ripped pants of awesomeness The_X_Marker wears ripped pants of awesomeness The_X_Marker wears ripped pants of awesomeness The_X_Marker wears ripped pants of awesomeness The_X_Marker wears ripped pants of awesomeness
Re: The (Cheese) Gauntlet

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthias Maccabeus View Post
chainfighters x 16 + Warden or chainfighters x 20
Woah now, let's not get too crazy. These lists are supposed to be beatable, I can't think of anything that can beat that!

Be polite: Don't put politics or religion in your signature!

My profile picture was taken with my first webcam...in 2007...
Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Heroscapers > Official Classic HeroScape > Competitive Armies Discussion
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
6/8 Hagerstown, MD Bring the Cheese, Eat the Cheese Gurei-Ornery Events 32 June 19th, 2019 12:03 PM
6/8 Hagerstown, MD Bring the Cheese, Eat the Cheese Gurei-Ornery Events 3 May 25th, 2019 01:58 PM
The Infinity Gauntlet - Who Will Win? kolakoski Comic Hero Custom Creations 27 August 25th, 2014 10:38 AM
The Infinity Gauntlet chas Marvel Maps & Scenarios 16 August 25th, 2014 09:22 AM
10/1 Savage, MD Bring the Cheese, Eat the Cheese Dad_Scaper Events 150 October 2nd, 2011 10:32 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:17 AM.

Heroscape background footer

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.