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  #493  
Old August 26th, 2020, 12:26 AM
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Re: C3V/SoV-inclusive Power Rankings

I just want to say that, if Heracles counters the Hydra, we really could not possibly have done better than that. Brings a smile to my face: .

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  #494  
Old August 26th, 2020, 01:02 AM
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Re: C3V/SoV-inclusive Power Rankings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jexik View Post
I guess Fen Hydra isn't as big of a problem as I make it out to be, but at just 120 points, it's definitely pretty splashable to deal with problematic match-ups.
I mean, you don't have to convince me of that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by heroscaper2010 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jexik View Post
When it comes to Isamu and MW, is it just that there's so little competition at their respective point totals?
Both of them can convert their points plus a bit more with ease. Opening up with MW against melee can really stall a melee army's progression/map control while the MW can take control of the whole map fairly easily with 6-move/range.
I honestly think Isamu is the most broken figure in the game, we just don't collectively notice it because punching 30 points over your weight doesn't stand out when you're only 10 points.

The Marro Warriors are capable of producing a near auto-win in endgame in a significant number of matchups, even against what should be overwhelming odds. They can also tilt matchups with their range and kiting ability well before endgame. As a value pick for 50 they really are insane.
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  #495  
Old August 26th, 2020, 01:09 AM
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Re: C3V/SoV-inclusive Power Rankings

Quote:
Originally Posted by dok View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jexik View Post
I guess Fen Hydra isn't as big of a problem as I make it out to be, but at just 120 points, it's definitely pretty splashable to deal with problematic match-ups.
I mean, you don't have to convince me of that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by heroscaper2010 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jexik View Post
When it comes to Isamu and MW, is it just that there's so little competition at their respective point totals?
Both of them can convert their points plus a bit more with ease. Opening up with MW against melee can really stall a melee army's progression/map control while the MW can take control of the whole map fairly easily with 6-move/range.
I honestly think Isamu is the most broken figure in the game, we just don't collectively notice it because punching 30 points over your weight doesn't stand out when you're only 10 points.

The Marro Warriors are capable of producing a near auto-win in endgame in a significant number of matchups, even against what should be overwhelming odds. They can also tilt matchups with their range and kiting ability well before endgame. As a value pick for 50 they really are insane.
Plus if they lose one or two in the endgame, they can spread across the map and clone to be more annoying.

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  #496  
Old August 26th, 2020, 01:10 AM
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Re: C3V/SoV-inclusive Power Rankings

Quote:
Originally Posted by dok View Post
I honestly think Isamu is the most broken figure in the game, we just don't collectively notice it because punching 30 points over your weight doesn't stand out when you're only 10 points.

Yeah I guess... but my issue with him is the same as Marcu. He's just not a good spot for your order markers most of the time. You can have him in your army and spend an entire tournament never activating him, especially if you're winning your games already. He's just never going to be the core component of an army or even your strategy.


But I guess if you're talking "killed 4-10x his points in 1 game this afternoon" as being grounds for A+, okay.


Orcelfarmyone has the Marro Warriors as an A+ already. It's neat to see a master set unique squad with that much respect, even after all these years.

Quote:
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(I've also played many matches with great, fun people who were using Q9. So using Q9 doesn't make you a tool. But being a tool sure seems to make you use Q9.)
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  #497  
Old August 29th, 2020, 09:19 AM
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Re: C3V/SoV-inclusive Power Rankings

Quote:
But I guess if you're talking "killed 4-10x his points in 1 game this afternoon" as being grounds for A+, okay.
Isamu’s earned well over 10x his points for me. To the tune of 30x, giving me a win in a tournement game after my Kurrok got Mindshackled. It’s not often that it happens, but it is a factor. A+ might be high, but A is still a good spot for a wildcard unit with almost no investment requirements.

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  #498  
Old February 4th, 2021, 03:02 PM
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Re: C3V/SoV-inclusive Power Rankings

How do people feel about the Wildwood army? From the 10ish games I've played with them I have seen them shut out armies with B or lower units, and go toe to toe with some high ranked units. I'd probably give them an A.

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  #499  
Old February 4th, 2021, 03:14 PM
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I think Wildwoods are B+ if both players know what they're doing but they can easily be an A if the opponent doesn't know to target runners. They can also be a C+ if the Wildwood player doesn't protect runners well. Wildwoods want anything they can grind out. They don't like anything that hits really hard and can be super mobile.

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  #500  
Old May 3rd, 2021, 09:33 AM
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Re: C3V/SoV-inclusive Power Rankings

Hey, I just noticed Sir Orrick (B rank) is greyed out... should be categorized, maybe something like Defender or Cleanup, I guess ?


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  #501  
Old May 17th, 2021, 10:07 PM
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Re: C3V/SoV-inclusive Power Rankings

Hey all,

I've done a complete overhaul of the rankings. In the process of putting together the updated Delta pricing spreadsheet, I refined my thinking about what these tiers mean, and I decided to take a fresh look at the rankings with that in mind.

I hope to update the OP with proper formatting in the coming days/weeks, but in the mean time I want to get the updated rankings out here in public.

A+

Deathreavers
Isamu
Major Q9
Marro Warriors
Raelin the Kyrie Warrior (RoTV)

A

10th Regiment of Foot
4th Massachusetts Line
Cathar Spearmen
Fen Hydra
Fyorlag Spiders
Greenscale Warriors
Grimnak
Heavy Gruts
Kaemon Awa
Knights of Weston
Major Q10
Marcu Esenwein
Marro Stingers
Me-Burq-Sa
Nerak the Glacian Swog Rider
Nilfheim
Quahon
Sir Gilbert
Vulcanmech Incendiborgs

A-

Airborne Elite
Axegrinders of Burning Forge
Azurite Warlord
B-11 Resistance Corps
Black Wyrmling
Blade Gruts
Blastatrons
Boreos
Braxas
Cyprien Esenwein
Darrak Ambershard
Death Chasers of Thesk
Eldgrim the Viking Champion
Gladiatrons
Guilty McCreech
Heracles
Krav Maga Agents
Laglor
Marcus Decimus Gallus
Mezzodemon Warmongers
Microcorp Troopers
Mogrimm Forgehammer
Phantom Knights
Roman Legionnaires
Ulfrid Hornwrangler
Varkaanan Greyspears

B+

Acolytes of Vorganund
Alastair MacDirk
Arktos
Arrow Gruts
Asterios
Atlaga the Kyrie Warrior
Augamo
Azazel the Kyrie Warrior
Bol
Buccaneers of Tortuga
Corvor the Tainted One
Crixus
Deathcommander Mark 3
Dreadgul Raiders
Eltahale
Fire Elemental
Goblin Cutters
Havech Eradicators
Krug
Kurrok the Elementalist
Kuthnak
Major J15
Marrden Nagrubs
Mimring
Mohican River Tribe
Moltenclaw
Morgan's Riflemen
Morgoloth
Ne-Gok-Sa
Ogre Pulverizer
Pel the Hill Giant
Racheim
Red Wyrmling
Rygarn
Syvarris
The Varja
Tor-Kul-Na
Varkaanan Quickblades
Varkaanan Swiftfangs
Varkanaan Darkclaws
Warforged Soldiers
Zelrig
Zetacron

B

12th Caucasus Rifles
Agent Skahen
Air Elemental
Arkmer
Ashi-Dhulu
Aubrien Archers
Avernus
Bahadur
Beorn Boltcutter
Brave Arrow
Brunak
Brute Gruts
Capuan Gladiators
Charos
Concan the Kyrie Warrior
Count Raymond
Crypt Guardian
Durgeth Ravagers
Finn the Viking Champion
Haduc
Heirloom
Himmelskralle
Honor Guard of the Blasted Lands
Hoplitron
Horned Skull Brutes
Hrognak (unmounted)
Izumi Samurai
James Murphy
Johnny "Shotgun" Sullivan
Josie Whistlestop
Kon-Tar-Na
Kursus
Marro Dividers
Marutuk
Minions of Utgar
Nakita Agents
Nhah Scirh Cultsts
Nicholas Esenwein
Othkurik The Black Dragon
Re-Tak-Shi
Sacred Band
Samuel Brown
Sentinels of Jandar
Sgt. Drake Alexander (SotM)
Shieldsmiths of Granite Keep
Sir Hawthorne
Skull Demon
Teeth of the Makwa
Venoc Vipers
Venoc Warlord
Warriors of Ashra
Water Elemental
Wildwood Monarch
Wildwood Runner
Wildwood Sentinel
Zettian Infantry

B-

8th Infantry Pathfinders
Ana Karithon
Anubian Wolves
Arthur of Sherwood
Ashigaru Harquebus
Beakface Sneaks
Breach
Cal the Smuggler
Capt. John Varan
Command Courier
Drow Chainfighter
Elaria the Pale
Frost Giant of Morh
Gen. Simon Fraser
Gorillitroopers
Ice Troll Berserker
Iron Golem
Jorhdawn
Kantono Daishi
Kira Jax
Kyntela Gwyn
Locksley
Louis "Mad Dog" Malone
MacDirk Warriors
Maltiz Tez
Marrden Hounds
Marro Drones
Migol Ironwill
Motley Max
Nottingham Brigand
Ogre Warhulk
Omegacron
Omnicron Repulsors
Ornak
Quorik Warwitch
Sentinels of Grax
Shadow Binder
Shadow Fiend
Shurrak
Siege
Siiv
Sonlen
Sonya Esenwein
Spartacus
Specters of Aldorn
Su-Bak-Na
Talingul
Tandros Kreel
Thorgrim the Viking Champion
Tombstone Gunslinger
Torin
Ulginesh
Van Nessing
White Wyrmling
Wyvern
Xualtiaca Fire Ants
Xundar
Zaeus
Zombies of Morindan

C+

20th Maine Volunteers
53rd North Carolina Sharpshooters
Armoc Vipers
Ashigaru Yari
Banshees of Durgeth Swamp
Bloodburst Thrall
Blue Wyrmling
Bramcephys
Brimstone
Brontos
Chardris
Clawfoot Interceptor
Darkprowl Thrall
Death Knights of Valkrill
Deepwyrm Drow
Deltacron
Earth Elemental
Emirroon
Executioner 616
Hrognak (mounted)
Kato Katsuro
Kha
Kozil
Kozuke Samurai
Kumiko
M-43 Resistance Fighters
Master Lo Xin
Microcorp Agents
Millerson
Morsbane
Myrddin
Ninjas of the Northern Wind
Omnicron Snipers
Otonashi
Patrick Ferguson
Protectors of Ullar
Raelin the Kyrie Warrior (SotM)
Red Ants of Aunstrom
Red Mantis Blade Dancers
Rendar Fy
Seleena
Sgt. Drake Alexander (RoTV)
Shadow Hound
Sir Orrick
Suskra
Swog Rider
Taelord the Kyrie Warrior
Tagawa Samurai
Tagawa Samurai Archers
Tarn Viking Warriors
Tetraites
Theracus
Tomb Skeleton Archers
Tyrian the Kyrie Warrior
Valguard
Varkaanan Blade Dancers
Warden 816
Werewolf Lord
Yi Feng
Zettian Deathwings
Zettian Guards
Zhen Yuan
Zombie Hulk

C

Agent Carr
Akumaken
Calibrax the Kyrie Warrior
Chen Tang
Deathstalkers
Deathwalker 8000
Dumutef Guard
Ebon Armor
Eilan Sidhe
Emperor Andask
Estivara
Garrett Burns
Gorillinators
Gothlok
Granite Guardians
Greater Ice Elemental
Jarek Guy
Jotun
Kee-Mo-Shi
Knights of Blackgaard
Lilja
Manauvi
Marro Drudge
Master Win Chiu Woo
Mind Flayer Mastermind
Otar
Quasatch Hunters
Retiarius
Rhogar Dragonspine
Shaolin Monks
Shiori
Sir Denrick
Skeletons of Annellintia
Tomoe Gozen
Tornak
Tul-Bak-Ra
Urk
Viceron the Blood Knight
Wolves of Badru
Z'Thoth, Mouth of the Abyss

C-

Achillean Gladiatrix
Brandis Skyhunter
Deadeye Dan
Deathstrike Thrall
Deathwalker 9000
Einar Imperium
Erevan Sunshadow
Evar Scarcarver
Feral Troll
Grigor & Rogirg
Gurei-Oni
Iskra Esenwein
Kelda the Kyrie Warrior
Major X17
Marro Gnids
Marro Hive
Martial La Hire
Master of the Hunt
Mok
Moriko
Obsidian Guards
Parmenio
Prince al'Kahora
Priscus
Rechets of Bogdan
Roman Archers
Shades of Bleakwoode
Sujoah
Tomb Skeletons
Uzog
Zogross Hardscale

D

Acolarh
Arashara Goshiri
Cormin the Dark
Cxurg'gyath
Deathwalker 7000
Dund
Dzu-Teh
Elite Onyx Vipers
Empress Kiova
Khosumet the Darklord
Mika Connour
Pelloth
Preyblood Thrall
Runa
Saylind the Kyrie Warrior
Sharwin Wildborn
Sir Dupuis
Sudema
Templar Cavalry
Wo-Sa-Ga

F

Grok Riders
Hatamoto Taro
Sahuagin Raider

Last edited by dok; May 20th, 2021 at 01:30 PM.
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  #502  
Old May 17th, 2021, 11:20 PM
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Re: C3V/SoV-inclusive Power Rankings

Thoughts on Kuthnak with Deathchasers? I see you have him at a B-. His passive boon to a cheap, mobile common squad that gets that head start is pretty sweet.

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  #503  
Old May 18th, 2021, 12:34 AM
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Re: C3V/SoV-inclusive Power Rankings

Kuthnak could (should?) be a B. I don't think much higher than that, though. He's a somewhat awkward pairing with the chasers because he doesn't bond and investing a full OM to move him is rarely worth it. He's better with the Blades IMO... but I have the Blade Gruts very high as well.

At the end of the day destroying your own units is not great, but he probably deserves a B.
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  #504  
Old May 18th, 2021, 08:15 AM
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Re: C3V/SoV-inclusive Power Rankings

You don't really need to bond with Kuthnak. Depending on the board you can just leave him in your startzone, and if you can't, committing a single turn to move up is really not really that big of a deal since you have Battle Rush. Kuthnak is meaningfully better with Chasers than the Grut squads he directly bonds with. His stats are so puny that there's not too much of a point in using him for bonding activations, it's all about the whirlwind. He kind of works against the grain of what Grimnak wants his bonding squad to do; Grimnak wants slow positional moves around him to keep the Chomp safe and boost attack, Kuthnak wants you sacrificing your squaddies to charge into a huge horde. MBS fits the grain of what you want to do much better.

But the biggest thing is dropping whirlwinds of 5 attack dice. Very few armies can weather the storm if you're able to do that enough. Blades and Heavies can only get to 3 or 4 on the whirlwind.

Kuthnak isn't as good as Raelin, which is the figure he replaces for Chasers, but he's a great option if the points don't line up perfectly for Chasers or if Raelin is banned. I think A-, B+ at very least.

But overall these rankings updates are so good. There should be some controversy since we just don't have that much data for these figures. I love the fanning the rankings, love the Spiders at A. Basically makes my rankings obsolete
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