Heroscapers
Go Back   Heroscapers > Official Valhalla HeroScape > Competitive Armies Discussion
Competitive Armies Discussion Discuss, critique, and build ideas for tournament-caliber armies.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #229  
Old May 17th, 2021, 05:41 PM
OEAO's Avatar
OEAO OEAO is offline
Cooking Rice is Hard
 
Join Date: August 6, 2011
Location: USA-CT-Hartford
Posts: 2,418
Images: 18
OEAO is a penguin with a machine gun OEAO is a penguin with a machine gun OEAO is a penguin with a machine gun OEAO is a penguin with a machine gun OEAO is a penguin with a machine gun OEAO is a penguin with a machine gun OEAO is a penguin with a machine gun OEAO is a penguin with a machine gun OEAO is a penguin with a machine gun OEAO is a penguin with a machine gun OEAO is a penguin with a machine gun OEAO is a penguin with a machine gun
Re: OEAO's Power Rankings

I only got two hours of sleep last night, so I'm not much in the mood to argue. However, the short explanation is this:

(1) Dividers are good
(2) There are results to back up (1)
(3) Dividers probably aren't the worst A- (see Fire Elemental, Laglor)
(4) Dividers don't really have any bad matchups in B+ and under
(5) Following (4), every team should bring Dividers if they're legal, because they're fine/good into everything (every other army has some better and worse matchups)

Last edited by OEAO; May 17th, 2021 at 06:22 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #230  
Old August 28th, 2021, 10:40 PM
OEAO's Avatar
OEAO OEAO is offline
Cooking Rice is Hard
 
Join Date: August 6, 2011
Location: USA-CT-Hartford
Posts: 2,418
Images: 18
OEAO is a penguin with a machine gun OEAO is a penguin with a machine gun OEAO is a penguin with a machine gun OEAO is a penguin with a machine gun OEAO is a penguin with a machine gun OEAO is a penguin with a machine gun OEAO is a penguin with a machine gun OEAO is a penguin with a machine gun OEAO is a penguin with a machine gun OEAO is a penguin with a machine gun OEAO is a penguin with a machine gun OEAO is a penguin with a machine gun
Re: OEAO's Power Rankings

Huge update!!!

Last edited by OEAO; August 28th, 2021 at 10:40 PM. Reason: Laglor is trash
Reply With Quote
  #231  
Old August 29th, 2021, 01:13 AM
Sir Heroscape's Avatar
Sir Heroscape Sir Heroscape is offline
Sir Formerly Known As adoney
 
Join Date: September 14, 2015
Location: U.S - Iowa
Posts: 9,584
Images: 146
Sir Heroscape is a man of the cloth Sir Heroscape is a man of the cloth Sir Heroscape is a man of the cloth Sir Heroscape is a man of the cloth Sir Heroscape is a man of the cloth Sir Heroscape is a man of the cloth Sir Heroscape is a man of the cloth Sir Heroscape is a man of the cloth Sir Heroscape is a man of the cloth Sir Heroscape is a man of the cloth Sir Heroscape is a man of the cloth Sir Heroscape is a man of the cloth Sir Heroscape is a man of the cloth Sir Heroscape is a man of the cloth Sir Heroscape is a man of the cloth
Re: OEAO's Power Rankings

Quote:
Originally Posted by OEAO View Post
Huge update!!!
Anything in particular? Notable changes we should be aware of?

Sir Heroscape's Content
Customs, Maps, Battle Reports
YouTube Channel, Trade List,
'Scaper of the Month, Burnout Format
Tourney Record: 282 - 124
Online Record: 19 - 22
Reply With Quote
  #232  
Old August 29th, 2021, 10:50 AM
OEAO's Avatar
OEAO OEAO is offline
Cooking Rice is Hard
 
Join Date: August 6, 2011
Location: USA-CT-Hartford
Posts: 2,418
Images: 18
OEAO is a penguin with a machine gun OEAO is a penguin with a machine gun OEAO is a penguin with a machine gun OEAO is a penguin with a machine gun OEAO is a penguin with a machine gun OEAO is a penguin with a machine gun OEAO is a penguin with a machine gun OEAO is a penguin with a machine gun OEAO is a penguin with a machine gun OEAO is a penguin with a machine gun OEAO is a penguin with a machine gun OEAO is a penguin with a machine gun
Re: OEAO's Power Rankings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Heroscape View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by OEAO View Post
Huge update!!!
Anything in particular? Notable changes we should be aware of?
Laglor is now in his rightful spot.
Reply With Quote
  #233  
Old September 2nd, 2021, 05:03 PM
Jexik's Avatar
Jexik Jexik is offline
Et tu, Jaxet?
 
Join Date: July 4, 2007
Location: IL - Elgin
Posts: 7,050
Images: 3
Blog Entries: 31
Jexik is a man of the cloth Jexik is a man of the cloth Jexik is a man of the cloth Jexik is a man of the cloth Jexik is a man of the cloth Jexik is a man of the cloth Jexik is a man of the cloth Jexik is a man of the cloth Jexik is a man of the cloth Jexik is a man of the cloth Jexik is a man of the cloth Jexik is a man of the cloth Jexik is a man of the cloth Jexik is a man of the cloth Jexik is a man of the cloth
Re: OEAO's Power Rankings

I feel like Fen Hydra should be an A. It was in dok’s old GC winning army back in the cheese era.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fomox View Post
(I've also played many matches with great, fun people who were using Q9. So using Q9 doesn't make you a tool. But being a tool sure seems to make you use Q9.)
Reply With Quote
  #234  
Old September 2nd, 2021, 05:25 PM
Chris Perkins's Avatar
Chris Perkins Chris Perkins is offline
 
Join Date: January 7, 2015
Location: USA - NH - Nashua
Posts: 1,283
Chris Perkins is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla Chris Perkins is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla Chris Perkins is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla Chris Perkins is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla Chris Perkins is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla Chris Perkins is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla Chris Perkins is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla Chris Perkins is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla Chris Perkins is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla Chris Perkins is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla
Re: OEAO's Power Rankings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jexik View Post
I feel like Fen Hydra should be an A. It was in dok’s old GC winning army back in the cheese era.
I'm lower on Hydra than some other people; A- feels right for me.

I think Hydra just has some bad matchups where it struggles to ever want OMs (WtF squads, bonding Dragons, etc.). And to me having bad matchups into non-A+ figures defines the gap between A- & A better than anything else.

In my mind, Hydra is a great way to achieve matchup smoothing for certain armies. But those type of figures tend to fall into the A- range more than the A range.
Reply With Quote
  #235  
Old September 2nd, 2021, 08:07 PM
vegietarian18's Avatar
vegietarian18 vegietarian18 is offline
Online HS Season 10 Champion
 
Join Date: September 5, 2011
Location: USA - IL - Peoria
Posts: 5,240
vegietarian18 is a man of the cloth vegietarian18 is a man of the cloth vegietarian18 is a man of the cloth vegietarian18 is a man of the cloth vegietarian18 is a man of the cloth vegietarian18 is a man of the cloth vegietarian18 is a man of the cloth vegietarian18 is a man of the cloth vegietarian18 is a man of the cloth vegietarian18 is a man of the cloth vegietarian18 is a man of the cloth vegietarian18 is a man of the cloth vegietarian18 is a man of the cloth vegietarian18 is a man of the cloth vegietarian18 is a man of the cloth
Re: OEAO's Power Rankings

Hydra is extremely inconsistent so people can have wildly varying opinions of him as a result. I think Cleon has him as a the fifth best figure in the game on his rankings. Hydra completely bailed me out for a win in my R3 Sideboards ScapeCon game vs. @JohnnyFrisbee by refusing to ever not block attacks from Knights of Weston, after Johnny caught my Krav early and Hydra was my only choice left. But he Hydra can easily vary the other way and lose a head on his first attack. Personally I think he's an a A, not A-. But I think Orc is really leaning into the personal opinion rankings here with Axegrinders at A.
Reply With Quote
  #236  
Old September 3rd, 2021, 05:37 PM
OEAO's Avatar
OEAO OEAO is offline
Cooking Rice is Hard
 
Join Date: August 6, 2011
Location: USA-CT-Hartford
Posts: 2,418
Images: 18
OEAO is a penguin with a machine gun OEAO is a penguin with a machine gun OEAO is a penguin with a machine gun OEAO is a penguin with a machine gun OEAO is a penguin with a machine gun OEAO is a penguin with a machine gun OEAO is a penguin with a machine gun OEAO is a penguin with a machine gun OEAO is a penguin with a machine gun OEAO is a penguin with a machine gun OEAO is a penguin with a machine gun OEAO is a penguin with a machine gun
Re: OEAO's Power Rankings

I view Hydra the same way I view Airborne: great when it's great, terrible when it's terrible. IMO, it's just too inconsistent (from both a matchups and variance perspective) to be an A.

Axegrinders are the opposite- they are always good. You sacrifice some better matchups into specific things to get smoother matchups overall than, say, Heavies (the Orcs' reliance on Grimnak is sometimes great, and sometimes terrible).

Last edited by OEAO; September 3rd, 2021 at 05:38 PM. Reason: Ken agrees with me on Axegrinders, so I'm in good company...
Reply With Quote
  #237  
Old September 5th, 2021, 10:20 AM
Cleon's Avatar
Cleon Cleon is offline
Baron of Beantown V
 
Join Date: April 25, 2007
Location: MA - Pittsfield
Posts: 4,550
Images: 15
Blog Entries: 4
Cleon is a penguin with a machine gun Cleon is a penguin with a machine gun Cleon is a penguin with a machine gun Cleon is a penguin with a machine gun Cleon is a penguin with a machine gun Cleon is a penguin with a machine gun Cleon is a penguin with a machine gun Cleon is a penguin with a machine gun Cleon is a penguin with a machine gun Cleon is a penguin with a machine gun Cleon is a penguin with a machine gun
Re: OEAO's Power Rankings

Quote:
Originally Posted by vegietarian18 View Post
Hydra is extremely inconsistent so people can have wildly varying opinions of him as a result. I think Cleon has him as a the fifth best figure in the game on his rankings. Hydra completely bailed me out for a win in my R3 Sideboards ScapeCon game vs. @JohnnyFrisbee by refusing to ever not block attacks from Knights of Weston, after Johnny caught my Krav early and Hydra was my only choice left. But he Hydra can easily vary the other way and lose a head on his first attack. Personally I think he's an a A, not A-. But I think Orc is really leaning into the personal opinion rankings here with Axegrinders at A.
At this point I’m gonna drop it down a tier (A+ to A) whenever the next time I update it, I think the past year and a half playing/playing against it has solidified that for me. I am higher on it than a lot of people but its inconsistency pulls it away from the top tier. My philosophy was that it can kill so much and on the flip side you don’t lose that many points if it’s a dud....but you still likely lose activations and board control if it’s a dud. Granted I haven’t played it with 16 rats flooding the board in a while but I think it belongs in A or right below the highest tier.

Axegrinders I view as literally the border between A- and A so I’m kinda cool with either. If there isn’t a lot of 4th and 10th in the field they really shine.

Edit: Also removing Kelda from the glyph pool definitely doesn’t help the Hydra’s case.
Reply With Quote
  #238  
Old March 26th, 2022, 09:01 AM
Grey Waves's Avatar
Grey Waves Grey Waves is offline
 
Join Date: December 11, 2020
Location: Australia - WA - Perth
Posts: 142
Grey Waves wears ripped pants of awesomeness Grey Waves wears ripped pants of awesomeness Grey Waves wears ripped pants of awesomeness Grey Waves wears ripped pants of awesomeness Grey Waves wears ripped pants of awesomeness Grey Waves wears ripped pants of awesomeness
Re: OEAO's Power Rankings

Could someone explain to me what exactly makes Sgt Drake (SOTM) A- tier? The only situation in which I'd even consider running him is if I'm bringing a 4th Mass build and am exactly 170 points under, and even then, I'd probably still rather take Alastair + Sam Brown. If you're looking for a can opener, Eltahale is 30 points cheaper while boasting better mobility (thanks to Thunder Step) and a multi-target 4-dice SA, and Alastair's ability to move 10 spaces at once and hit something with a double attack of 5 (although admittedly not on the same turn) makes him more effective than Drake for this purpose as well. I'm not even convinced that SOTM Drake is even that much better than ROTV Drake - most armies would rather bring another squad of commons than pay a 60 point premium for 1 extra life and defence. Fundamentally, 170 points is just a lot to pay for a single-attack-per-turn hero who's other abilities could at best be considered 'somewhat useful'. (4th and gladblast are the only top tier armies that are really bothered by Thorian Speed - the other ranged armies either don't mind engaging him or predominantly use special attacks anyway). He's still a good figure, but I can't help but feel that B+ would be a better ranking for him than where he currently sits.

“Just because I disagree with you, does not mean that I hate you. We need to relearn that in our society" - Morgan Freeman
Reply With Quote
  #239  
Old March 26th, 2022, 10:47 AM
Chris Perkins's Avatar
Chris Perkins Chris Perkins is offline
 
Join Date: January 7, 2015
Location: USA - NH - Nashua
Posts: 1,283
Chris Perkins is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla Chris Perkins is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla Chris Perkins is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla Chris Perkins is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla Chris Perkins is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla Chris Perkins is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla Chris Perkins is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla Chris Perkins is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla Chris Perkins is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla Chris Perkins is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla
Re: OEAO's Power Rankings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grey Waves View Post
Could someone explain to me what exactly makes Sgt Drake (SOTM) A- tier? The only situation in which I'd even consider running him is if I'm bringing a 4th Mass build and am exactly 170 points under, and even then, I'd probably still rather take Alastair + Sam Brown. If you're looking for a can opener, Eltahale is 30 points cheaper while boasting better mobility (thanks to Thunder Step) and a multi-target 4-dice SA, and Alastair's ability to move 10 spaces at once and hit something with a double attack of 5 (although admittedly not on the same turn) makes him more effective than Drake for this purpose as well. I'm not even convinced that SOTM Drake is even that much better than ROTV Drake - most armies would rather bring another squad of commons than pay a 60 point premium for 1 extra life and defence. Fundamentally, 170 points is just a lot to pay for a single-attack-per-turn hero who's other abilities could at best be considered 'somewhat useful'. (4th and gladblast are the only top tier armies that are really bothered by Thorian Speed - the other ranged armies either don't mind engaging him or predominantly use special attacks anyway). He's still a good figure, but I can't help but feel that B+ would be a better ranking for him than where he currently sits.
I'm torn.

On the one hand, I'd almost never (perhaps actually never) include SotM Drake in a bring-1 army, which is a strong argument against an A- ranking. On the other hand, he is actually a strong counter to most of the other heroes in the A-/A tiers given his 6 attack and strong survivability, so there are some bring-1 armies I might run where I'd rather not see my opponent having SotM Drake. That kinda puts him in the niche counter-pick option, like the Cultists in C3V, in my view.

Regarding SotM Drake v. RotV Drake, I almost certainly rank SotM Drake higher because I don't think I'd ever use RotV Drake over Alastair, and at least SotM Drake has a point total where he becomes a better option sometimes.

I think I disagree on taking Alastair + Sam Brown instead of Drake, as I don't think you're going to get useful OMs on Sam Brown almost ever, which kinda makes it more of a direct comparison between SotM Drake & Alastair and Drake just has the better stat line and survivability via Thorian Speed.

In some sense, I see SotM Drake as a somewhat similar figure to Cyprien insofar as he's a stand-alone hero that you'd normally pair with some common squad. Cyprien is clearly the better option to me, although he does have more terrible matchups than Drake does (but also way more great matchups).

So I really don't know where I'd rank him, but I wanted to throw some of these thoughts out there.
Reply With Quote
  #240  
Old March 27th, 2022, 05:04 PM
OEAO's Avatar
OEAO OEAO is offline
Cooking Rice is Hard
 
Join Date: August 6, 2011
Location: USA-CT-Hartford
Posts: 2,418
Images: 18
OEAO is a penguin with a machine gun OEAO is a penguin with a machine gun OEAO is a penguin with a machine gun OEAO is a penguin with a machine gun OEAO is a penguin with a machine gun OEAO is a penguin with a machine gun OEAO is a penguin with a machine gun OEAO is a penguin with a machine gun OEAO is a penguin with a machine gun OEAO is a penguin with a machine gun OEAO is a penguin with a machine gun OEAO is a penguin with a machine gun
Re: OEAO's Power Rankings

So I dug back a little bit in the discussion. When I first posted these, I had initially moved Drake SotM down to B+. A few people pushed back on it (Dysole and Jexik), with the reasoning being that he's really good for 4th Mass at some specific point totals (notably 450 and 520 points). I guess you could make an argument for Charos to be moved up for a similar reason? Like 4th Mass with Charos at 500 is similarly good... although I'd probably rather have 5x Mass, Alastair, Eldgrim at that point total. Obviously all of this also depends on figure limits too (I'd probably rather have 6x Mass Eldgrim instead of 4x Mass Drake SotM at 450 if I have 24 hexes).

I do think I'd rather have Drake SotM over Alastair and Sam Brown for the same reasons Chris laid out.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Heroscapers > Official Valhalla HeroScape > Competitive Armies Discussion
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
C3V/SoV-inclusive Power Rankings dok C3V and SoV Customs 603 April 24th, 2023 09:20 AM
C3G Power Rankings dok C3G Legacy 160 July 3rd, 2019 08:05 PM
Power Rankings by waves infectedsloth Competitive Armies Discussion 8 March 11th, 2012 03:27 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:16 AM.

Heroscape background footer

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.