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Competitive Armies Discussion Discuss, critique, and build ideas for tournament-caliber armies.


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  #277  
Old March 4th, 2024, 06:14 AM
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Re: OEAO's Power Rankings

Interesting to see Arrows swing back around. I’ve always been a fan of them; got one of my few tourney wins (and several losses) with them back in the day.

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(I've also played many matches with great, fun people who were using Q9. So using Q9 doesn't make you a tool. But being a tool sure seems to make you use Q9.)
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  #278  
Old March 6th, 2024, 11:49 AM
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Re: OEAO's Power Rankings

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Originally Posted by Jexik View Post
Interesting to see Arrows swing back around. I’ve always been a fan of them; got one of my few tourney wins (and several losses) with them back in the day.
They're cheap, they're fast, and they have great bonding options. If there was a tier between A- and B+, I'd probably put them there, but if I have to choose one, then my current thought is A-.
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  #279  
Old Yesterday, 04:41 AM
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Re: OEAO's Legacy Power Rankings

I’m fine with Stingers dropping. To me they’re in between A and A-, I tend to think of them as a low A. But I do think it’s weird to have them in the same tier as the Dividers, since it’s fairly clear they’re just better. I don’t think any Divider build is on the same level as Stingers+Rats+Raelin or Stingers+Raelin. To me: Stingers - A/A-, Dividers - B+, Drones - B. It also feels off to have them (dividers) in the same tier as Axegrinders, since they just got a bump down too. All dwarves or big-squad-killer hero+dwarves are great armies. Dividers are solid but again I really don’t think they’re on that level.

After the past couple years, one unit I’m quite convinced should go up is the Warriors of Ashra (B > B+). WoA+Raelin+Krav or WoA+Raelin+Q9 are strong builds. They’re really the only B unit (and most of B+) that actually makes high/top tier stuff worry. If you don’t have an answer to them, there’s really not much you can do. And I think the builds I mentioned (plus some others with raelin+range) give you a shot into not just the melee high/top tier matchups.

Warforged are a very similar role. I know you just bumped them down but Warforged+Raelin+Krav and Warforged+Raelin+Q9 are also strong. Warforged (or Ashra) backed by Raelin is such a difficult wall for so many things to go into.

Ashra and Warforged do suffer from being non-bonding melee 3-squads and you can feel that when you run other builds with them, but I do think those Raelin+Krav and Raelin+Q9 (and similar) builds pull them into B+. Ashra at least, Warforged are pricier so I’m not as certain (though I’m leaning B+).
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  #280  
Old Yesterday, 09:12 AM
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Re: OEAO's Legacy Power Rankings

I agree with Cleon that Dividers should be B+. They're good, but there's no way that they're on the same level as stuff like Romans, Stingers, or Axegrinders. Yes, Dividers are cheap, and Cell Divide is an excellent defensive ability, but they're slow and their offensive output is limited to 3 attacks of 3 per turn. B+ is a far more fitting rank for them.

The only unit I feel strongly about is the Marro Drones - B rank is too low. Drones average 4.8 attacks per turn, and are cheap enough that you can get 6 squads of them for only 300 points. Yes, they're a bit inconsistent, but their inconsistency runs both ways - there are times where a spate of poor d20 rolls will lose you the game, but there are equally times where a series of hot Swarm rolls will win you a game that you would've otherwise had no shot of winning. I'm pretty sure that they beat every other squad in the B tier head-to-head too (besides the Ashra), and go even or better into most of the B+ ranks, for whatever that's worth.

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  #281  
Old Yesterday, 10:49 AM
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Re: OEAO's Legacy Power Rankings

Yeah, I need to take another look at the B to A- tiers. I'm thinking that another tier within that range (expanding them out by one rank and either bumping everything above these ranks up, or moving everything below them down) could be beneficial- especially seeing as most of the AoA units are in the B range.
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  #282  
Old Yesterday, 11:52 PM
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Re: OEAO's Legacy Power Rankings

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Originally Posted by Grey Waves View Post
I agree with Cleon that Dividers should be B+. They're good, but there's no way that they're on the same level as stuff like Romans, Stingers, or Axegrinders. Yes, Dividers are cheap, and Cell Divide is an excellent defensive ability, but they're slow and their offensive output is limited to 3 attacks of 3 per turn. B+ is a far more fitting rank for them.

The only unit I feel strongly about is the Marro Drones - B rank is too low. Drones average 4.8 attacks per turn, and are cheap enough that you can get 6 squads of them for only 300 points. Yes, they're a bit inconsistent, but their inconsistency runs both ways - there are times where a spate of poor d20 rolls will lose you the game, but there are equally times where a series of hot Swarm rolls will win you a game that you would've otherwise had no shot of winning. I'm pretty sure that they beat every other squad in the B tier head-to-head too (besides the Ashra), and go even or better into most of the B+ ranks, for whatever that's worth.
On paper, Drones and Dividers seem about the same in power. But in practice and over the years I think Dividers have shown to be a tier higher.

The thing is, it appears Drones get 4.8 attacks on average, but the reality is they get 4.8 moves on average, and not necessarily that many attacks. It's not that often you get all 6 attacks on the turns you hit a 13-16, and even less often all 9 when you hit 17+. It's not uncommon when you hit the 13-16, you'll get like 4 attacks, and even if you have a lot of Drones where the action is and you roll a 17-20, you'll get like 6 or 7. It's likely you won't get to attack with all 6-9 that you get to move. It does help they have 6 move, but they don't have anything special defensively, so it's not easy to keep them close to the action so they can max their attacks when they swarm. You also can't do anything to set up a swarm turn, other than land on lodin.

For Dividers, they appear to be a unit that can respawn, and save themselves from death, 20% of the time. So they're a bit defensive and it's like when you run a bunch of dividers, you're getting some more dividers with them too. But, the real value comes in with respawning mid-board. It's really powerful to plop another unit in where the action is (in addition to saving the one that divided). If Dividers just respawned a unit back in the start zone when one divided, they wouldn't be nearly as good (if that was the case I think I'd put them in the same tier as Drones). There are times when you run Dividers into range that it really sucks when your divide roll hits with one being shot at in the start zone instead of with one of your Dividers that is developed. But it's surprisingly strong to respawn from one that's developed and in position.

Anyway, that's my thoughts on the two 50pt. melee marro squads. On the surface they appear about even, but looking into the more hidden things about them I mentioned puts them into two different tiers in my opinion, with Dividers > Drones.

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Originally Posted by OEAO View Post
Yeah, I need to take another look at the B to A- tiers. I'm thinking that another tier within that range (expanding them out by one rank and either bumping everything above these ranks up, or moving everything below them down) could be beneficial- especially seeing as most of the AoA units are in the B range.
That could be helpful, adding another tier in that range. B to A+ tiers are really the only units that matter in classic, more cheese-style tournaments.

There is a weird conundrum you come across in ranking all of the units when comparing low tier things. It's like, "this unit is clearly better than this other one (maybe one is C and the other D), but neither is going to see competitive play so." lol. I might go back and update my list once this semester's over, now that AoA is here.
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