Need help tweaking my customs

[earlofwessex]

Hey, I'm new here. I've got some customs done and would like to get some input on a few things. Cards will follow once I've convinced my camera to focus on something so small.

A few comments on my preferences. I don't like ubercharacters. I like characters with abilities are are very powerful in a certain set of situations, but have significant weaknesses that can be exploited by a careful foe. This causes everyone to play smarter.

Sun leopard (Sun leapard from Mage Knight - don't have a Heroscape name yet): L: 3 M:9 R:1 A:6 D:2
Special abilities: 1) Savage Onslaught: If Sun Leopard causes any wounds, he attacks the same figure again. He may make a maximum of 3 attacks per turn. 2) Ambush Predator: SL is not placed at the start of the game. SL may be placed on the board during any of its owning player's first 3 turns in any hex any part of which is out of LOS of all enemy figs. 3) Spent: if SL is activated more than once in a turn, on his second and subsequent turns he suffers a M: -4 and A: -3 penalty.

Basically, this guy is designed to ambush and kill heroes, I want him to have a shot at taking down Krug or a Dragon in one turn, but as you see he has some significant disadvantages. So he can either pay off big time, or be a total waste

How many points would you think he's worth?

The Baroness: W:4 M:6 R:1 A:3 D:3
Special Abilities: 1) Dawn and Dusk blades: If the Baroness causes any wounds on figures with the Vampireism ability, or a were of any kind, they are immediately destroyed. The Baroness rolls double attack dice against all other supernatural creatures (undead, demons etc., but not Orks or Trolls etc.)

Point value?

The Count W:6 M:7 R:1 A:3 D:5
Special Abilities 1) Vampireism: for every wound the Count inflicts, remove one wound counter from the Count 2) Rejected by the Earth: The Count cannot be damaged by non-magical metal objects

Bob the Nailer (Vietnam Sniper) W:4 M:5 R:7 A:5 D:2
Special abilities: Overwatch: if Bob neither moves nor attacks during his activation, put overwatch counter on Bob's card. During enemy player's turn, you may remove the overwatch counter to make an attack against any enemy figure that is in or is moving through Bob's range and LOS. If any wounds are scored, that figure's move stops and its turn is over. There is only one overwatch counter.

[netherspirit]

You have a couple of interesting abilities there. I will give them a more indepth analysis during my lunch break at work when I can actually take the time to think.

[netherspirit]

Okay so I got distracted at lunch today.

Sun Leopard
Stats:
Seem okay, 6 attack is a might bit high and coupled with the savage onslaught it could be downright devastating. 2 Defense and 3 life might be enough to counter that though...meaning he might not be on the board for very long...

Savage Onslaught: Since he is attacking the same figure it might not be so bad, he is basically a Kyrie Killer, or a hero killer...

Ambush Predator: Not sure about this one, I can see that it is meant to be a limitation of sorts, but I think it would be cool to incorporate Trees into this power.

Spent: I imagine that you mean if he is activated more than once in a round? This, coupled with his low defense and low life might be enough to allow a 6 attack 9 move figure multiple attacks....like I said he isn't going to be staying on the board very long...

You might consider making him a common hero or squad with 1 life and a slightly higher defense (3?) Then you could draft multiples, but then the Spent ability would need working out...

All in all I think its a pretty decent custom, I am not sure how much to cost him, because that is always the hardest part of making a custom. My initial gut reaction was 110, but only actual playtesting will reveal his true cost.

I will be back later to look at the others

[ChaosChild]

Welcome earlofwessex. Here's my critique.

Sun leopard

Nether pretty much covered everthing. My only concern is that if there is no cover, then SL won't be able to be placed. That may be unlikely, but it is possible. (choose your battlefield carefully)

The Baroness

Dawn and Dusk Blades is going to be limited to custom units only (no official units with that criteria).
Heroscape does not define supernatural being. Short of listing all the species/clesses on the card, I don't think that wording will work. Unless you have custums that fit.

The Count

I like vampirism. It could be very powerful.
Again, heroscape does not define non-magical metal. You might try: The Count can't be wounded by normal attacks (probably too powerful) or he gets automatic shields against normal attacks (like Gorillinators).

Bob the Nailer

Overwatch is a nice ability. My concern here is that he might be too powerful. 5A at 7R, add in hieght advantage, maybe a glyph or Taelord. Plus he gets a free shot if the move towards him. Perhaps make his attack lower (snipers are better at long range) to reflect his limited melee ability. Then give him a special attack that reflects his sniping ability. A special attack would allow you to give him a powerful attack without it getting out of hand with bonuses.

Overall, great ideas. Hopefully I have sparked some new ideas or alternate routes for you to make a custom that you like and that fits into the game.

[Fallen Templar]

I find the ablities great but the counts ability are cool i like vamps. Is inspired by any books because he reminds me of Ben Cortman from I am legend

[earlofwessex]

What I like about the Sun Leapord is that he limits the tactical options of your opponent. If you are facing someone that has it you can't send your heroes in to lead the way, or you'll find the best of them hit by a 2,000 lb buzz saw. You have to either screen your heroes with squads, or send your squads out on the flanks to "beat the bushes" and get LOS on anyplace where the SL could be placed. Even if you do this and the SL only ends up taking out a common squad member, the points aren't totally wasted for the enemy because of this limiting of your options.

I will add to the Ambush Predator ability: "if no such hex exists, SL may not be activated the round [or turn? bound? I play too many games to keep my terms straight] it is placed."

I will change Bob the Nailer's Attack to 1 and make the attack 5 part of the overwatch ability.

I think that I will change the Baroness to read "gets +1 attack die against supernatural creatures" rather than double dice.

The Baroness and the Count are really, as they are written now, only suitable for friendly games, which is all I do. The meaning of "non-magical, metalic weapons" should be obvious, but if you have a really competative person (who still thinks that the reason you play a game is to win, rather than to have fun), it could be a nightmare. Ditto with "supernatural."

[ChaosChild]

Originally Posted by earlofwessex

What I like about the Sun Leapord is that he limits the tactical options of your opponent. If you are facing someone that has it you can't send your heroes in to lead the way, or you'll find the best of them hit by a 2,000 lb buzz saw. You have to either screen your heroes with squads, or send your squads out on the flanks to "beat the bushes" and get LOS on anyplace where the SL could be placed. Even if you do this and the SL only ends up taking out a common squad member, the points aren't totally wasted for the enemy because of this limiting of your options.

I will add to the Ambush Predator ability: "if no such hex exists, SL may not be activated the round [or turn? bound? I play too many games to keep my terms straight] it is placed."

I will change Bob the Nailer's Attack to 1 and make the attack 5 part of the overwatch ability.

I think that I will change the Baroness to read "gets +1 attack die against supernatural creatures" rather than double dice.

The Baroness and the Count are really, as they are written now, only suitable for friendly games, which is all I do. The meaning of "non-magical, metalic weapons" should be obvious, but if you have a really competative person (who still thinks that the reason you play a game is to win, rather than to have fun), it could be a nightmare. Ditto with "supernatural."

Understood. I too prefer to have fun than win at all costs. As for "supernatural", that is obvious. "non-magical metalic weapons" can get fuzzy. I have a suggestion for a custom for your opponents. A mage or druid that enchants the whole army's weapons. That will make the Count wish he had enjoyed that last sunrise.

[ForeverMan724]

hey there, earlofwessex

so far a lot of ppl have said that my characters are over powered. i knew this might happen so i gave them a point value of 400! so far ive won 5 out of 10 battles crossing the board of scenario's from king of the hill to race for the glyph. all n all im very comfortable with all the characters in this game n confident in my character designing abilties. check out my custom characters at JC's Handmade C.H.C. to get a better idea of my game style ^_^

as for your characters, they all Rock dude
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the only abilities that i Q? are the Sun Leopards "Ambush Predator" n Bob the Nailers "Overwatch Ability". this is only my oppinion k. you can believe me when i say i want these guys! this is just a rethinking of how to use your idea on any battle feild with out realy changeing anything else. so here it goes...

Sun Leopards "Ambush Predator": When the Sun Leopord is Adjacent to a Tree or has a Hight Advantage of four Levels, LOS is only possible when within 4 spaces of the Sun Leopard.

or

Sun Leopards "Ambush Predator": (Effect: Grass) To have LOS on the Sun Leapard the Attacker must be within four spaces of the Sun Leopard.

these two ideas allow you to put the Sun Leopard to the battle feild right off the bat. with his low deffence many will go after him first, but with his speed n strength they will still keep a good distance away. with both abilities long range characters will be of no use, forcing a close range fight.

this i belive is what you or i should say the Sun Leopard would want ^_^
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nowthen, Bob... my only question is why cant he use his Overwatch Ability more than once?! its the only ability he has! here is how i would say it k...

Special abilities: Overwatch: if Bob neither moves nor attacks during his Turn, put overwatch counter on Bob's card. During enemy player's turn, you may remove the overwatch counter to make an attack against any enemy figure that is in or is moving through Bob's range and LOS. If any wounds are scored, that figure's move stops and its turn is over. Both players roll one dice for attack n Defence.

This sounds alot more like a sniper to me. and this not only allows Bob to use his Special ability more than once its a decent % rate for him n his enemy. one Skull dice 3/6 chance. one Shield dice 2/6 chance.

this is just my opinion though ^_^
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now, as to point values...

Sun Leopard: id say 120

The Baroness: 75 or 80

The Count: a good solid 100

Bob the Nailer: id say a close 80 or 90... id personaly give him 110 if you were to use my idea for his speacial ability

i hope my ideas find you in good health n Battleon Dude!

[Rhydderch]

Hey Earl: You have some cool abilities there. They may need some re-wording to better fit the other HS cards though. Here are some suggestions:

Sun Leopard
3 Life
9 Move 1 Range
6 Attac 2 Defen
Suggested: 120 Points

Savage Onslaught: Whenever Sun Leopard inflicts a wound on a figure, he may attack that figure again. Sun Leopard may continue attacking the figure until he does not inflict a wound. Sun Leopard may not attack the same figure more than 3 times.

-Since Savage Onslaught only allows you to attack the same figure the wording at the end should be sufficient to prevent more than 3 attacks per turn. Alternatively you could make this a special attack and add this text to the end: If Sun Leopard has taken a turn this round, he may not use his Savage Onslaught Special Attack. That could be a good alternative to the spent ability.

Ambush Predator: Sun Leopard does not start the game on the battlefield. At the start of round 1, 2 or 3, you may place Sun Leopard on any empty space as long as no enemy figure has line of sight to Sun Leopard.

-Ambush Predator is fun as a way to limit the Sun Leopard but also allows him to get close to enemy figures quickly if you have good cover. Nice ability though a little hard to word properly. My version is not perfect but should sound a little more official.

Spent: If Sun Leopard has taken a turn this round, he rolls 3 fewer attack dice and moves 4 fewer spaces.

About the Count and Baroness: I know you mainly use them for friendly games, but I have provided alternate text anyway in case you would like to use it. Its up to you, of course =)

The Baroness
4 Life
6 Move 1 Range
3 Attac 3 Defense
Suggested: 60-100 Depending on How Many Vampires, Werewolves and Supernatural Customs You've Made. Otherwise around 40 with the current selection of official units since her specials only affect Sudema at the moment.

Dawn Blade: Whenever the Baroness inflicts a wound on a Werewolf or Vampire figure, the figure is immediately destroyed.

-This version puts a bit of a limit on the race of your custom figures but it should be more clear and simpler.

Dusk Blade: When attacking any Undead or Demon figure the Baroness rolls twice her normal number of attack dice.

-Again there is more of a limit on the races the Baroness is able to attack this way but the other version simply left too much to argument. Is a wolfen supernatural? In cases like these its probably better to choose a few races and list them.

The Count
6 Life
7 Move 1 Range
3 Attac 5 Defense
Suggested: 100-120 Points

Vampirism: Whenever the Count inflicts a wound on a figure, remove one wound counter from this card.

-Simple enough to make. You may need to clarify whether the Count can attack friendly figures since this IS allowed in HS.

Rejected by the Earth: Enemy figures may not attack the Count with a normal attack.

-Your original version left too much in question. This version would need a drawback because it can unbalance the game.

Bob the Nailer
4 Life
5 Move 7 Range
1 Attack 2 Defense
Suggested: 90-120

Overwatch: If Bob does not move or attack during his turn, you may put an Overwatch Marker on this card. At any time, you may remove an Overwatch Marker from this card to make an attack with 5 dice against any figure within 7 clear sight spaces of Bob the Nailer. If Bob the Nailer inflicts a wound on the figure, the figure must end its turn.

-I've designed a few abilities like this before. The wording still needs a bit of work. You may want to change the text to say: you may choose any figure within 7 clear sight spaces of Bob the Nailer. My version allows Bob to attack during your own turn since there's no real reason why he could not. You may also want to consider changing this to a special attack because of the change to his base attack.

-I would estimate Bob's cost a little higher since he can basically make a 5 attack every time he has a turn. The only limit is he cannot move. In other words he can choose to attack a figure within 7 spaces with his 1 attack. Or he can wait until the enemy's turn (when he has an Overwatch marker) and make the same attack for 5 dice before the enemy can do anything. So basically its the same as if he had made a 5 dice attack during his own turn - only you have the added advantage of stopping a figure from doing anything.

Anyway good job with the abilities, especially the Sun Leopard. He's a very cool figure with some neat abilities. The Baroness and Count get points for theme though it might be hard for other people to use them because of the confusion over supernatural and etc. Overwatch is a solid ability though it may need some fixes. I know my own abilities that are similar have gone through a lot of edits.

[earlofwessex]

Hey Guys,

Thanks so much for your great ideas and help with the rewording of my abilities. The more I think about the Count and the Baroness, the more I think that I will probably only use them with some other horror-themed customs I've got.

The reason that I said that there was only 1 overwatch counter is not to say that he can only shoot once, btw, but to make sure that he can't just sit for several turns, accumulating counters and then unload 5 shots at one time - that isn't realistic or the purpose of the ability. Its purpose is to cover other figs, stymie an assault by stopping a leader from advancing, taking out the Sun Lepoard, etc.

I will work on getting these cards done, then post a few more customs.

Look forward to some more Victorians.

[ForeverMan724]

no prob, dude. as long as your happy with your characters thats all that matters... right?

hehe, well as long as the majority likes your characters you cant go wrong... right?

Ah! forget it! i love your characters, ^_^ it doesnt matter what i think. youve got some realy awesome characters man.

battleon dude!