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C3G Library This area collects all the released designs. Feel free to post any figure specific questions in their individual books.


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  #13  
Old January 17th, 2017, 04:28 PM
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Re: The Book of Nemesis - Breathing Period

Your argument doesn't work here...

Conan the Barbarian...his class is Barbarian but his species is Human.
Nemesis the Warlock...his class is Warlock his species is probably whatever planet the demon alien came from.

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  #14  
Old January 17th, 2017, 04:54 PM
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Re: The Book of Nemesis - Breathing Period

The secret identity thing feels like a callback to Lobo to me; is that the sort of theme we're going for?

The unlimited range on Lord of the Flies is kind of funky, but since this is limited to Nemesis only, it's probably OK. That said, if the spell is literally only for this figure, maybe it can just be a power?

Servant of Khaos seems like a pretty unusual power given the many things markers represent. I guess Zatanna establishes the idea of treating all non-order markers as the same, but hers also just allows healing, so it's always in play in any game. Nemesis's means that he can't be in the Avengers or Masters of Evil (seems themey), and also that he's immune to Lycanthropy and Negation and Starro and Control Box and such (still themey, if a very different theme), but also immune to Mantrap and Retribution and Mark of Death and Ice Markers and stuff like that (i.e. not so themey). It's an odd mix and pretty dependent on the matchup. I don't hate the power by any stretch - I actually kind of like how it makes me think about things differently, and I don't think it's unbalanced. I'm just not sure it's the best use of card real estate.
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  #15  
Old January 17th, 2017, 05:09 PM
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Re: The Book of Nemesis - Breathing Period

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Originally Posted by japes View Post
Your argument doesn't work here...

Conan the Barbarian...his class is Barbarian but his species is Human.
Nemesis the Warlock...his class is Warlock his species is probably whatever planet the demon alien came from.
That is how I would interpret it as well. Warlock is a type of evil magic user in the same way a Barbarian is a type of warrior, so the title Nemesis the Warlock would be a reference to his class such that not everyone from his home can use magic.

Looking at his wiki page and it looks like his first two wives were also referenced as warlocks, but then it does not reference his son as being a warlock or his Great Uncle Baal as being a warlock. I don't see anything about a specific race other than daemonic alien. It also talks about how the creator (Mills) wanted to pit a daemon hero vs. the religious fanatic arch-villain. So daemon seems like it could be a good fit for the race. It would open him up to some synergy with Marvel & DC units.
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  #16  
Old January 17th, 2017, 05:14 PM
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Re: The Book of Nemesis - Breathing Period

Regardless of how weird it is, his species is Warlock!

From tvtropes:
Belonging to the race of powerful, demonic aliens known as Warlocks, Nemesis is both a fearsome warrior and mighty wizard, who in several occasions brings forth his view of humans as Puny Earthlings.

From britishcomics.wikia:
Warlocks are characters from the 2000 AD strip Nemesis the Warlock. They are a species of powerful aliens from the Nether Worlds who possess strong dark magic, with many of them worshipping the god of Khaos. Despite their immense power they mostly adopt an isolationist attitude towards the rest of the universe, preferring not to get involved in the affairs of aliens even when one species (humanity) is terrorising all the others.

Male Warlocks are humanoid (to an extent), whereas the more powerful female Warlocks are centaur-like. Male Warlocks may have horns, antlers or wings, and at least one has been seen to have the head of a serpent. If a Warlock has a familiar, the familiar may resemble the Warlock in some way (e.g. hair length and colour, or body mass index).

Warlocks live for hundreds of years. The male called Ashtar once held a party that lasted for three years, which suggests that either Warlocks perceive time differently from humans, or they really enjoy carousing. Recently the species has been in decline, with the hatching of children becoming worryingly infrequent. To hatch a Warlock egg, the parents must breath fire on its tough, warty shell. The sex of the child cannot be determined until it has hatched.

It isn't clear whether or not female Warlocks breastfeed their young, as terrestrial mammals do. Female Warlocks appear to have breasts but no nipples, so the question is moot.

The most famous member of the species was Nemesis the Warlock who led the resistance group Credo, fighting against the anti-alien bigot Torquemada. Other Warlocks include Nemesis' father Thoth; Nemesis' son of the same name; his Great Uncle Baal; Chira his first wife; Magna his very brief second wife; and Magna's father Ashtar.

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  #17  
Old January 17th, 2017, 05:22 PM
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Re: The Book of Nemesis - Breathing Period

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Originally Posted by dok View Post
The secret identity thing feels like a callback to Lobo to me; is that the sort of theme we're going for?

The unlimited range on Lord of the Flies is kind of funky, but since this is limited to Nemesis only, it's probably OK. That said, if the spell is literally only for this figure, maybe it can just be a power?

Servant of Khaos seems like a pretty unusual power given the many things markers represent. I guess Zatanna establishes the idea of treating all non-order markers as the same, but hers also just allows healing, so it's always in play in any game. Nemesis's means that he can't be in the Avengers or Masters of Evil (seems themey), and also that he's immune to Lycanthropy and Negation and Starro and Control Box and such (still themey, if a very different theme), but also immune to Mantrap and Retribution and Mark of Death and Ice Markers and stuff like that (i.e. not so themey). It's an odd mix and pretty dependent on the matchup. I don't hate the power by any stretch - I actually kind of like how it makes me think about things differently, and I don't think it's unbalanced. I'm just not sure it's the best use of card real estate.
As I posted earlier the only reason I included a SI is because of the Marvel Nemesis conflict and yes I am using Lobo as a precedent.

I have no problem making Lord of the Flies a common spell and restricting the range, how about 10 spaces?

Servant of Khaos was originally my idea to represent his magical nature. The guy has a spell or ability to get out of anything so the power fits him well. I would love to keep it if there are no issues with competitive play.
Deadlock would share the power and maybe Ro-Jaws someday but that is unlikely.

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  #18  
Old January 17th, 2017, 06:03 PM
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Re: The Book of Nemesis - Breathing Period

Given the nature of the spell, a range of 10 isn't much of a nerf, actually. My point was less about common vs. unique, and more that if Nemesis is the only one who will ever be able to use the spell, it could just be a power instead of a spell.
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  #19  
Old January 17th, 2017, 06:30 PM
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Re: The Book of Nemesis - Breathing Period

I considered that at one point but I would have to drop SoK for a pretty much blah power.
We can drop the range to whatever is needed(any suggestions?) but it is certainly a spell and I do believe Deadlock casts something like it once.


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  #20  
Old January 17th, 2017, 07:39 PM
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Re: The Book of Nemesis - Breathing Period

Okay so the race of daemonic aliens are called warlocks. As for the spell, I like the idea of it being a spell that someone else could also learn and cast, so a sorcerer restriction rather than a warlock restriction. I'd leave it as unique then since it last the whole round. Having your range negated for the whole round every round would be annoying but once per game is just a tactical obstacle.
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  #21  
Old January 17th, 2017, 09:19 PM
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Re: The Book of Nemesis - Breathing Period

Warlock still strikes me as an odd Species, but if that's what he officially is, then there's not much to be done.

On the Secret Identity, yes "He Who Devours Your Entrails and Thoroughly Enjoys It" is actually Lobo's real name, or at least a rough translation of it. Yes, that's dumb. I also don't think Lobo should have been given a Secret Identity. As for clashing with other Nemesisses, there appear to be a few different Marvel ones, but they all have alter egos, so I wouldn't worry about it.
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As far as how he uses it, I remember two instances. Very early he uses them to kill an old woman in her sleep. At the end of the original series he uses them to defeat Torq who using wearing Warlock-proof armor. The flies are able to find a way in and their heat fuses the armor trapping Torq inside.
See, none of that strikes me as "range blocker." I feel like it's kind of wasting a really cool power/spell name for a useful but not exciting power.Does he actually use his flies to block someone's sight in the comics?

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  #22  
Old January 17th, 2017, 09:36 PM
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Re: The Book of Nemesis - Breathing Period

Yeah, I liked the logic of the translation for Nemesis as a secret identity - good way to get around the issue and I don't mind being cute with it sometimes - but looking it over, I don't think there's any overlap issues. So we should be fine with him as the original Nemesis, nice and easy.

Definitely funky that his race is a possible class, but like you said, I can't think of any characters that HAVE to be Warlocks, so we should be fine.

Servant of Khaos is weird and probably niche, but it's my favorite part of the card, so I'd hate to drop it. It's very funky and splashy and makes you really think about how things work. And he's a magic demon alien space dude so I can handwave away most of the theme issues.

With Lord of the Flies, maybe make it so with Warlocks, you don't discard it? It's a one-time spell for most figures, but reusable but Nemesis... probably with a once-per-round restriction or something. But maybe we don't even need that, it's not super overpowered and you'd be able to hit three figures at most by giving up all of his movement.

Levitation does seem overly clunky to me. I understand that he doesn't fly, and the power thus shouldn't be the equivalent of Flying, but... in 90% of maps it really won't make a difference, and it's a lot clunkier just for those corner cases.
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  #23  
Old January 18th, 2017, 07:54 AM
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Re: The Book of Nemesis - Breathing Period

Anyone besides TB have an issue with the mechanics of Lord of the Flies?
I am all for opening it up to other mages.
If we want to never have a Levitation option we can just go with Fly.
I just thought it would be nice to have a lower cost option.

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  #24  
Old January 18th, 2017, 10:59 AM
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Re: The Book of Nemesis - Breathing Period

Cutting his Secret Identity makes sense to me. If his species really is Warlock then we'll go with that, it just seems odd. I like Servant of Khaos, it's weird but cool.

If it's not too much of a theme break, making the Levitation spell just give the caster Flying seems like a better move to me. Nicely simple and fits for lots of characters. But I'm not opposed to sticking with the current version.

Lord of the Flies feels a little "meh" to me, and it doesn't seem like it really gets the theme accurately. What about making it an SA spell? Something like:

Quote:
LORD OF THE FLIES
Unique Spell
Cost ???


LORD OF THE FLIES SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 10. Attack 2.
Figures who are not occupying a water space roll 2 fewer defense dice against this special attack, or 4 fewer defense dice if this figure is a Warlock.

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