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C3G Library This area collects all the released designs. Feel free to post any figure specific questions in their individual books.


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  #85  
Old April 21st, 2019, 08:20 AM
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Re: The Book of Phoenix Force: Initial Playtesting

You get what you didn't have. Restricting it to figures who don't already have Flying or Super Strength would be very limiting.

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  #86  
Old April 21st, 2019, 08:21 AM
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Re: The Book of Phoenix Force: Initial Playtesting

Gotcha. Sounds good, and I agree it'd be pretty limiting as most of our Telepaths have Super Strength.

There's also the question of the stats - the may is intentional, right? They can keep their own stats if they prefer?

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  #87  
Old April 21st, 2019, 08:24 AM
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Re: The Book of Phoenix Force: Initial Playtesting

Quote:
PSIONIC AVATAR
At the start of each round, before rolling for initiative, if all Order Markers are placed on this card, you may choose a Unique Telepath Hero you control to be the Psionic Avatar for the round. If your chosen Avatar does not have any of the Phoenix Fire, Flying, or Super Strength special powers, it gains those special powers and replaces the Move, Range, Attack, and Defense values on its card with the values on this card for the rest of the round. As long as the Avatar is in play, whenever you reveal an Order Marker on this card instead of taking a turn with Phoenix Force you take a turn with its Avatar.
Instead of "it gains those special powers" should we say "it gains those special powers it does not have"?

I removed the may from the stats changing.

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  #88  
Old April 21st, 2019, 08:28 AM
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Re: The Book of Phoenix Force: Initial Playtesting

I'd say "it gains any of those special powers it does not have." But, yeah, that makes sense.

C3G can be played with official Heroscape, but it's not recommended.


DISCLAIMER: C3G claims no ownership of the characters or artwork used for C3G customs. All rights for the characters belong to their respective publishers/creators. C3G cards are not intended for sale, and C3G does not authorize any party to profit from C3G cards.

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  #89  
Old April 21st, 2019, 08:35 AM
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Re: The Book of Phoenix Force: Initial Playtesting

Cool, SP updated with the wording. Let me know if it still reads poorly.

My intent is that it has to gain any of the powers it does not have and take the stats. I definitely do not want someone who has a longer range (Cable or a future Telepath) to keep their range with a boosted attack for example. I'm trying to keep this design from limiting future Telepath designs while also making it easier to balance here.

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  #90  
Old April 21st, 2019, 10:53 AM
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Re: The Book of Phoenix Force: Initial Playtesting

Thanks for the clarifications, Tickle. Last question: does the Phoenix Force have to farm out turns to the Avatar, or does it have the option of taking a turn itself while the Avatar is in play?

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  #91  
Old April 21st, 2019, 11:35 AM
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Re: The Book of Phoenix Force: Initial Playtesting

Also, any strong feelings about the point cost here?

Just ran Phoenix Force @700, Jean Grey, Phoenix, Dark Phoenix (1600) vs Iron Man (Avengers), Captain America (Steve), Ms. Marvel, Swordsman, Sif, Captain Marvel (Mary Batson), Skrull Infiltrator x2 (1600).

It was a massacre. Phoenix Force and Dark Phoenix both left alive with 1 wound and 2 wounds, respectively.

I like the way the Phoenixed Phoenix army worked, it just felt undercosted by a lot. Phoenix Force is supposed to be one of the bigwig cosmic entities in the Marvel U, up there with Galactus, so I don't have any problem with just letting the points climb to match its performance. Just wanted to double-check and see how you felt about that before bumping the cost and running more games.

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  #92  
Old April 21st, 2019, 11:51 AM
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Re: The Book of Phoenix Force: Initial Playtesting

Sounds like a good plan.
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  #93  
Old April 21st, 2019, 12:34 PM
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Re: The Book of Phoenix Force: Initial Playtesting

No I said I didn't really want it to be more than 1200 cause you do still need to draft Avatars to use with it to make it effective, but it is about the power level of Galactus so raising the cost significantly is not out of the question.

As for the OM thing, I kinda intended for you to only be able to use the Avatar so you could go for the Phoenix Force while it was just sitting there and I definitely didn't want full on bonding, giving you the option of two different figures to use on an OM still feels too strong here,

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  #94  
Old April 21st, 2019, 12:42 PM
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Re: The Book of Phoenix Force: Initial Playtesting

Quote:
Originally Posted by tcglkn View Post
No I said I didn't really want it to be more than 1200 cause you do still need to draft Avatars to use with it to make it effective, but it is about the power level of Galactus so raising the cost significantly is not out of the question.
I don't think <1200 is out of the question with the current mechanics. I might run it more around that level for a couple games and see how it goes. We can look at changes if it's still coming in hot.

Quote:
As for the OM thing, I kinda intended for you to only be able to use the Avatar so you could go for the Phoenix Force while it was just sitting there and I definitely didn't want full on bonding, giving you the option of two different figures to use on an OM still feels too strong here,
Totally fair. That's how it reads, I just wanted to make sure that was the intent.

Mainly I think you want to run the Avatar out and engage them to maximize the impact of auto-wounds anyway, but it might make a difference on some maps (where if you had the option of taking a turn with the Phoenix Force instead of the Avatar, you might want to run it to high ground or shelter on an early OM).

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  #95  
Old April 21st, 2019, 12:47 PM
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Re: The Book of Phoenix Force: Initial Playtesting

Well choosing an Avatar is optional and you don't even have to put all the OMs on the Force in the early turns if you want to get it into a better position. The opposing army can always try to ignore the Avatar and attempt to prioritize the Phoenix Force.

I'll update the SP to 1200 points and we can start testing from there.

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  #96  
Old April 21st, 2019, 03:50 PM
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Re: The Book of Phoenix Force: Initial Playtesting

C3G STANDARD PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE PLAYTEST UNIT: Phoenix Force

Army Test
Map: Ivy's Greenhouse
Units: Phoenix Force @700, Jean Grey, Phoenix, Dark Phoenix (1600) vs Iron Man (Avengers), Captain America (Steve), Ms. Marvel, Swordsman, Sif, Captain Marvel (Mary Batson), Skrull Infiltrator x2 (1600)
Spoiler Alert!

___________________________________________________________

Army Test
Map: Ivy's Greenhouse
Units: Phoenix Force @1200, Jean Grey, Phoenix, Dark Phoenix (2100) vs Iron Man (Avengers), Captain America (Steve), Ms. Marvel, Swordsman, Sif, Captain Marvel (Mary Batson), Liu Kang, Iron Fist (2100)
Spoiler Alert!

___________________________________________________________

Army Test
Map: Ivy's Greenhouse
Units: Phoenix Force @1200, Cable, Mirage, Gypsy (1810) vs Martian Manhunter (II), Superman (III), Batman (III), Green Lantern (Hal Jordan), Drax (II) (1810)
Spoiler Alert!


THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT'S COST, BALANCE, & DRAFTABILITY: This thing is nasty. I'm okay with further testing at 1200 - losing that second game with Cable was encouraging. Wouldn't be surprised if it was still showing strong at this level, though.

Unlike a lot of figures, the Phoenix can be really tough to take down with multi-attacks, just by virtue of the number of Phoenix Fire/Cosmic Inferno auto-wounds that you open yourself up to if you chip away at the Phoenixes' health. Bruisers fare a lot better against the Phoenix, with a better chance to do a big lump of wounds in one hit.

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