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  #3277  
Old March 17th, 2019, 10:53 AM
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Scytale Scytale is offline
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Because of the Deathwalkers, many auto-wound powers are limited to small/medium only. I don't think it would be too rough on the shadows to follow that precedent here.
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  #3278  
Old March 17th, 2019, 12:33 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

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Originally Posted by NecroBlade View Post
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Originally Posted by ollie View Post
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Originally Posted by superfrog View Post
...Although Deathwalkers really should be running with ZI's at this point...
Agreed. Let Deathwalkers be Deathwalkers. Just because ZI exist doesn't mean we have to try to kill them with every defense-ignoring power.
Completely agreed.
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Originally Posted by Scytale View Post
Because of the Deathwalkers, many auto-wound powers are limited to small/medium only. I don't think it would be too rough on the shadows to follow that precedent here.
Or limit it to squad figures only, since squad-killing power is what drove the power in the first place. I could see either way, though small/medium is probably stronger theme-wise.
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  #3279  
Old March 17th, 2019, 06:19 PM
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Post Creese, my first SoV Figure!

Hello all,
below you can see my first Figure i submit to SoV. I tested him last Week for a few games and he felt really good and fun to play. Now im confident enough to post the latest version to get some feedback.

The mini i used is the "Dungeons of Dread #48 - Warforged Infiltrator"

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  #3280  
Old March 17th, 2019, 06:34 PM
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Leaf_It Leaf_It is online now
 
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

This looks neat. Advanced Tactical Switch should probably have a clear sight restriction on it, so that Creese can't use it to switch figures on the other side of ruins, or anything like that, but I otherwise like the ability. Priority targeting is cool to see reused. The auto shield might be pretty tough to beat with 3 defense on top of it, but that shouldn't break it, though it might warrant a slight price increase. Playtesting would tell.

I'm sorry to say though, this design can't be submitted unless you can find a different figure. I checked TrollandToad, MiniatureMarket, RPGlocker, and ebay, and I did not find a single one in stock. The SoV likes to have at least 50 - 70 figures available for a unique hero design. This design is pretty sweet though, so if you can find workable figure to replace the current one, I'd love to see it submitted in the future.
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  #3281  
Old March 17th, 2019, 06:34 PM
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The Dewk The Dewk is offline
 
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

EDIT: ninja’d by Leaf_It !

Right off the bat I’m pretty sure miniature availability will kill this design - Dungeons of Dread came out over a decade ago, and Warforged minus are pretty popular. There isn’t even a single one of this guy on EBay or miniature market.
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  #3282  
Old March 17th, 2019, 06:50 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

I agree with most of what's been said so far. Availability concerns aside, I'd like to see Advanced Tactical Switch take place after moving and before attacking to give it a defined point in the turn (but still let you position him first), and require clear sight from your figure to Creese to activate the switch.

I also think that 2 Defense is a better fit than 3 here, because the figure already packs a powerful ranged attack and good survivability with the automatic shield. All of the other Warforged that I can think of also have a base defense of 2, which is still pretty effective, and keeping such a great defense on Creese would likely inflate his price.
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  #3283  
Old March 17th, 2019, 07:00 PM
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Airballshooter Airballshooter is offline
 
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

I wasn't aware of the fact that the availability could kill it. In the EU i got him for 5€ just a month ago and the seller got a few left. i didn't expect that he wouldn't be available in the US since its always the other way around for me. I will look into it and try to find a different mini that is more common these days.

Happy to hear that you like it, Leaf_It. Line of sight seems reasonable. I tested him with 2 defense and he died so quickly with it. i would prefer to bumb up his cost. (or maybe lower his life?)
Another thought i had was to let him use ATS more than once per turn but on squad figures only. I didn't test it yet, so maybe its to much going on if he can switch to much.
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  #3284  
Old March 17th, 2019, 07:05 PM
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Leaf_It Leaf_It is online now
 
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Quote:
Originally Posted by Astroking112 View Post
I agree with most of what's been said so far. Availability concerns aside, I'd like to see Advanced Tactical Switch take place after moving and before attacking to give it a defined point in the turn (but still let you position him first), and require clear sight from your figure to Creese to activate the switch.

I also think that 2 Defense is a better fit than 3 here, because the figure already packs a powerful ranged attack and good survivability with the automatic shield. All of the other Warforged that I can think of also have a base defense of 2, which is still pretty effective, and keeping such a great defense on Creese would likely inflate his price.
All of the Warforged with Warforged Resolve have a defense of 2. Siege does not have Warforged resolved, so he gets 5 defense, and Crag of Steel.
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Originally Posted by Airballshooter View Post
I wasn't aware of the fact that the availability could kill it. In the EU i got him for 5€ just a month ago and the seller got a few left. i didn't expect that he wouldn't be available in the US since its always the other way around for me. I will look into it and try to find a different mini that is more common these days.

Happy to hear that you like it, Leaf_It. Line of sight seems reasonable. I tested him with 2 defense and he died so quickly with it. i would prefer to bumb up his cost. (or maybe lower his life?)
Another thought i had was to let him use ATS more than once per turn but on squad figures only. I didn't test it yet, so maybe its to much going on if he can switch to much.
Lowering his life would help keep the price close to the same if you really want him to have 3 defense. The thing is, he's a range 6 figure, with 4 attack, which is pretty good. Having a defense of 3 is decent, and adding an auto shield on top of that, is basically giving him the best of both worlds. He gets his cake defense, and can attack it too. Advanced Tactical Switch is fine affecting heros in my opinion, mostly because they will rarely come into play, but limiting it to squads would fine too.
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  #3285  
Old March 17th, 2019, 07:11 PM
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Airballshooter Airballshooter is offline
 
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Quote:
Originally Posted by Astroking112 View Post
I'd like to see Advanced Tactical Switch take place after moving and before attacking to give it a defined point in the turn (but still let you position him first), and require clear sight from your figure to Creese to activate the switch.
The reason i didnt do it, is that i wanted to give him this tricky flavor. This way i can move an enemy out of the way so can walk there without getting engaged. or i can move the enemy out of range after i attacked him. If i would limit it to after moving some cool interactions wouldn't excist.
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  #3286  
Old March 17th, 2019, 07:18 PM
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Leaf_It Leaf_It is online now
 
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Quote:
Originally Posted by Airballshooter View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Astroking112 View Post
I'd like to see Advanced Tactical Switch take place after moving and before attacking to give it a defined point in the turn (but still let you position him first), and require clear sight from your figure to Creese to activate the switch.
The reason i didnt do it, is that i wanted to give him this tricky flavor. This way i can move an enemy out of the way so can walk there without getting engaged. or i can move the enemy out of range after i attacked him. If i would limit it to after moving some cool interactions wouldn't excist.
Order of operations is important in heroscape, as it is in any turn based game. The SoV does not like abilities that don't make the order of things clear. You could do "Before or after moving" or you could do "Before or after attacking", but if you try to do both, you're going to receive a lot of push back, and they likely wouldn't accept the design. I would recommend "Before or after moving". This allows the traditional switch for height advantage that the Warforged Soldiers have.
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  #3287  
Old March 17th, 2019, 07:30 PM
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Airballshooter Airballshooter is offline
 
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaf_It View Post
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Originally Posted by Airballshooter View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Astroking112 View Post
I'd like to see Advanced Tactical Switch take place after moving and before attacking to give it a defined point in the turn (but still let you position him first), and require clear sight from your figure to Creese to activate the switch.
The reason i didnt do it, is that i wanted to give him this tricky flavor. This way i can move an enemy out of the way so can walk there without getting engaged. or i can move the enemy out of range after i attacked him. If i would limit it to after moving some cool interactions wouldn't excist.
Order of operations is important in heroscape, as it is in any turn based game. The SoV does not like abilities that don't make the order of things clear. You could do "Before or after moving" or you could do "Before or after attacking", but if you try to do both, you're going to receive a lot of push back, and they likely wouldn't accept the design. I would recommend "Before or after moving". This allows the traditional switch for height advantage that the Warforged Soldiers have.
This sounds really good. "Before or after moving" seems like a good solution to make it more clear but keep it flexible and tricky.

I would really like to keep the 3 def, but i dont know how much the cost would increase to make it balanced. i could see him going down to 3 attack instead. he would roll 4 dice often anyways if he gets to switch.
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  #3288  
Old March 17th, 2019, 07:43 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Quote:
Originally Posted by Airballshooter View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaf_It View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Airballshooter View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Astroking112 View Post
I'd like to see Advanced Tactical Switch take place after moving and before attacking to give it a defined point in the turn (but still let you position him first), and require clear sight from your figure to Creese to activate the switch.
The reason i didnt do it, is that i wanted to give him this tricky flavor. This way i can move an enemy out of the way so can walk there without getting engaged. or i can move the enemy out of range after i attacked him. If i would limit it to after moving some cool interactions wouldn't excist.
Order of operations is important in heroscape, as it is in any turn based game. The SoV does not like abilities that don't make the order of things clear. You could do "Before or after moving" or you could do "Before or after attacking", but if you try to do both, you're going to receive a lot of push back, and they likely wouldn't accept the design. I would recommend "Before or after moving". This allows the traditional switch for height advantage that the Warforged Soldiers have.
This sounds really good. "Before or after moving" seems like a good solution to make it more clear but keep it flexible and tricky.

I would really like to keep the 3 def, but i dont know how much the cost would increase to make it balanced. i could see him going down to 3 attack instead. he would roll 4 dice often anyways if he gets to switch.
Automatic shields are hard to balance. Think about how often you typically roll a shield when you roll a single defense die. The odds are 1 in 3, or 33%. If you look at the statistical average of each roll, Automatic shields are then as powerful as rolling 3 extra defense dice. So your 3 defense + 1 auto shield, is statistically identical to rolling 6 defense. It's not inherently broken, but it's a lot better than you probably expect. Now in actual gameplay 1 automatic shield is sometimes worse than just rolling 3 defense, because you could roll 3 shields, but most of the time, you'll probably just roll 1. But the Automatic shield is consistent, you know that you will always have that 1 shield, so you won't have to worry about Deathwalker syndrome, and die to a single skull despite all the defense dice you just rolled. This is why it's hard to balance.
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