FIRST STRIKE: How would YOU do it?

[Lazy Orang]

Originally Posted by gatormustang

I have been giving this quite come thought and Lazy Orang makes a great point that the Heroscape system does not match well with MTG. I also agree with Confred that nothing so far has the right feel for First Strike. How about something like the following: "First Strike - When your figure is targeted for a normal adjacent attack, before rolling defense dice make an immediate attack." This way your figure utilizing First Strike has the ability to potentially destroy the other figure first, which does capture the intent of First Strike. Alternately, if you wanted to be a little more potent here is another version: "First Strike - When your figure is targeted for a normal adjacent attack, before rolling defense dice make an immediate attack. After rolling defense dice all excess shields count as unblockable hits."

I think I've heard people say there are rules issues with attacking out of turn, so it would never fly anywhere official. For custom stuff, though, I'd use an attack out of turn mechanic, it sounds fun, go with it!

[flameslayer93]

Any thoughts on this?

When Sir Thigamabob is attacked normally by an adjacent/other scenario figure, before rolling all combat dice normally you may use First Strike. Roll combat dice equal to Sir Thigamabob’s Attack. The attacking figure rolls combat dice equal to their defense. For every unblocked skull, the attacking figure reives one wound. Continue with the attacking figure’s attack as normal. Sir Thigamabob may only use First Strike once per turn.

This lets you use combat stats (which I presume is a goal) while still fitting into the rules of heroscape. First Strike is a damage power that relies on combat dice (Frost Giant of Morh did it), not an attack of any form. It’s also in a mixable/matchable format, further allowing customization.

[Tornado]

Pretty slick. I like it.

[gatormustang]

Originally Posted by flameslayer93

Any thoughts on this?

When Sir Thigamabob is attacked normally by an adjacent/other scenario figure, before rolling all combat dice normally you may use First Strike. Roll combat dice equal to Sir Thigamabob’s Attack. The attacking figure rolls combat dice equal to their defense. For every unblocked skull, the attacking figure reives one wound. Continue with the attacking figure’s attack as normal. Sir Thigamabob may only use First Strike once per turn.

This lets you use combat stats (which I presume is a goal) while still fitting into the rules of heroscape. First Strike is a damage power that relies on combat dice (Frost Giant of Morh did it), not an attack of any form. It’s also in a mixable/matchable format, further allowing customization.

I like adding that "First Strike" may only be used once per round. After reading yours I believe that we are stating the same thing. In both versions a defending figure is targeted for a normal attack by an adjacent figure. Before the attacking figure rolls their attack dice the defending figure rolls for their normal attack dice value and the attacking figure rolls their defense dice value. Once that is done the attacking figure then performs their normal attack. I personally don't feel that this is causing the defending figure to go out of turn it is simply an effect based on the attacking figures engagement attack. An example of this is Arkmer's "Engagement Strike 13". Although Arkmer is not rolling attack dice he gets the opportunity to attack via the 20-sided die and potentially inflict a wound. Once again Arkmer is not going out of turn, but is instead performing an action due to an attacking figures engagement with him.

[flameslayer93]

Originally Posted by gatormustang

I like adding that "First Strike" may only be used once per round. After reading yours I believe that we are stating the same thing. In both versions a defending figure is targeted for a normal attack by an adjacent figure. Before the attacking figure rolls their attack dice the defending figure rolls for their normal attack dice value and the attacking figure rolls their defense dice value. Once that is done the attacking figure then performs their normal attack. I personally don't feel that this is causing the defending figure to go out of turn it is simply an effect based on the attacking figures engagement attack. An example of this is Arkmer's "Engagement Strike 13". Although Arkmer is not rolling attack dice he gets the opportunity to attack via the 20-sided die and potentially inflict a wound. Once again Arkmer is not going out of turn, but is instead performing an action due to an attacking figures engagement with him.

The only notable difference is that your version is a deliberate attack, where this version is a deliverate power. It’s just a way to circumvent the little issues in scape rules.

[gatormustang]

I truly don't see a difference between the two, but either way it provides the effect that I had in mind and makes it feel as close as it could to what occurs in MTG.

[Confred]

Originally Posted by gatormustang

I have been giving this quite come thought and Lazy Orang makes a great point that the Heroscape system does not match well with MTG. I also agree with Confred that nothing so far has the right feel for First Strike. How about something like the following: "First Strike - When your figure is targeted for a normal adjacent attack, before rolling defense dice make an immediate attack." This way your figure utilizing First Strike has the ability to potentially destroy the other figure first, which does capture the intent of First Strike. Alternately, if you wanted to be a little more potent here is another version: "First Strike - When your figure is targeted for a normal adjacent attack, before rolling defense dice make an immediate attack. After rolling defense dice all excess shields count as unblockable hits."

I suggested that immediate attack defense version also. That's my current favorite, however, I want some kind of kicker for attacks- I don't think auto wounds are good

[Confred]

Originally Posted by Lazy Orang

I think I've heard people say there are rules issues with attacking out of turn, so it would never fly anywhere official. For custom stuff, though, I'd use an attack out of turn mechanic, it sounds fun, go with it!

Oh, believe me, the wording requisites will be way more complex than many may first think

[Confred]

Originally Posted by flameslayer93

Any thoughts on this?

When Sir Thigamabob is attacked normally by an adjacent/other scenario figure, before rolling all combat dice normally you may use First Strike. Roll combat dice equal to Sir Thigamabob’s Attack. The attacking figure rolls combat dice equal to their defense. For every unblocked skull, the attacking figure reives one wound. Continue with the attacking figure’s attack as normal. Sir Thigamabob may only use First Strike once per turn.

This lets you use combat stats (which I presume is a goal) while still fitting into the rules of heroscape. First Strike is a damage power that relies on combat dice (Frost Giant of Morh did it), not an attack of any form. It’s also in a mixable/matchable format, further allowing customization.

Yes, I was thinking something very similar to this.

[Confred]

So is there any love for

STRIKE FIRST
This figure may attack before moving.

FIRST STRIKE
This figure may attack before moving and attack before defending (concept wording)

[gatormustang]

@SIEGE converted AoTP units in to Heroscape Generals form. They are at the following link:

https://www.heroscapers.com/communit...ad.php?t=54643

He incorporated attacking prior to moving as a part of HASTE. If you go to the above link and view the Blazing Firecats under Red you can see how HASTE was implemented. This would make STRIKE First or FIRST STRIKE too much like HASTE.

[Confred]

Originally Posted by gatormustang

@SIEGE converted AoTP units in to Heroscape Generals form. They are at the following link:

https://www.heroscapers.com/communit...ad.php?t=54643

He incorporated attacking prior to moving as a part of HASTE. If you go to the above link and view the Blazing Firecats under Red you can see how HASTE was implemented. This would make STRIKE First or FIRST STRIKE too much like HASTE.

Those are some interesting points to ponder. I wonder if I created a post for haste. I do see how the two concepts may overlap.