What the Hex is Hexskape?

[Xorlof]

Originally Posted by Parduz

My memory is faulty, but I still have my SolidScape VB6 source code to look at if someone need to dig in the .sol files.

I may try to dig in my backup hard disk.

Parduz--That would be terrific! I'd be happy to add SolidScape to my export tool. If they are XML-ish, I probably could figure it out easier than it has been when working with the VirtualScape binary files, but having the source code for the file save/load in SolidScape would be even better as it would help eliminate ambiguities.

In doing the VirtualScape export, I've discovered that the first piece of data in the .HSC file is a version number. There seem to be 7 distinct versions of .HSC files, but what is troubling for my export tool is that I can't find any differences between the 5th and 6th versions...

Regarding the export tool--here's where it is at: I think I've figured out everything there is to know about .HSC files (with the 5th/6th version caveat listed above) and my tool can read them in and spit out a plain text version.

For example, the export of Snowy Peak creates a text file that starts off like this and contains all of the data in the .HSC file:

Name: Snowy Peak
Author: Fen_Hydra
Players: 2
=====================================================
Scenario: 1 ROTV 1 SOTM 1 BFTU 1 TJ 1 FOTA 1 TT.

This map is intended for a 2-player game of 400-1000 points (24 start
marked, but yellow start is optional.)

All glyph placements are optional.
=====================================================

Print Levels/page: 4
Print Transparency: 80
Print Grid: 1
Print Tile Number: 0
Print Start As Level: 1
Number of Tiles: 387

Num   Ver  Type          Rot   X   Y   Z   Gl  rrggbb  Start Name      blank
1     3    Grass/24      0     9   20  0       00a000                          
2     3    Grass/24      180   8   17  0       00a000                          
3     3    Grass/24      0     22  17  0       00a000                          
4     3    Grass/24      180   22  14  0       00a000                          
5     3    Grass/24      0     14  17  0       00a000                          
6     3    Grass/24      180   16  17  0       00a000                          
7     3    Rock/24       0     17  11  0       aaaaaa                          
8     3    Rock/24       180   13  23  0       aaaaaa                          
9     3    Swamp/24      300   25  25  0       6f6915                          
10    3    Swamp/24      120   10  9   0       6f6915                          
11    3    Swamp/7       0     15  14  0       6f6915                          
12    3    Swamp/7       0     19  23  0       6f6915                          
13    3    Swamp/7       0     23  23  0       6f6915                          
14    3    Swamp/7       0     11  14  0       6f6915                          
15    3    Swamp/7       0     15  10  0       6f6915                          
16    3    Swamp/7       0     19  27  0       6f6915                          
17    3    Swamp/7       0     28  22  0       6f6915                          
18    3    Swamp/7       0     6   15  0       6f6915                          
19    3    Swamp Water/1 0     22  11  0       ded22a                          
20    3    Swamp Water/1 0     9   15  0       ded22a

...and goes on to list all 387 tiles/glyphs/starting positions/etc. I still have to do some cleanup of the scenario text to convert it from RTF to HTML or something, but the hard part (figuring out how the data is stored) is done. Before I mess around with the RTF, I'll first do the code to create an XML or JSON representation, so that others can start working with the file format I create.

If anyone wants a copy of this early-version tool, PM me with your email address.

[Parduz]

Originally Posted by Xorlof

Parduz--That would be terrific! I'd be happy to add SolidScape to my export tool. If they are XML-ish, I probably could figure it out easier than it has been when working with the VirtualScape binary files, but having the source code for the file save/load in SolidScape would be even better as it would help eliminate ambiguities.

Well, you perhaps are a young boy so you don't know Solidscape.... which was just a 3D renderer of LandScape .sol maps. So if you want to manage .sol files, you already have them for SolidScape. The only problem is that SS was riding on a dead horse (LandScape) and so its terrain features are obsolete as Landscape is.
VirtualScape is faaaaaarr superior in 3D rendering, so i never felt the needs to develop SS more. Anyway, i can send the source code of my .SOL loading function... you will have to bear with italian comments, but i guess it is not so hard to understand that VB code.

Did you try to contact Zzzzzz (or who is mantaining VirtualScape right now)? i did a lot of time ago and he sent me the code related to the files... i dunno if i still have it and if i can share it: i just want to say that Zzzzz was a kind guy and willing to cooperate.

I'll search my HD one of these night and throw here what i'll found.

[Xorlof]

Originally Posted by Parduz

Well, you perhaps are a young boy so you don't know Solidscape.... which was just a 3D renderer of LandScape .sol maps. So if you want to manage .sol files, you already have them for SolidScape. The only problem is that SS was riding on a dead horse (LandScape) and so its terrain features are obsolete as Landscape is.
VirtualScape is faaaaaarr superior in 3D rendering, so i never felt the needs to develop SS more. Anyway, i can send the source code of my .SOL loading function... you will have to bear with italian comments, but i guess it is not so hard to understand that VB code.

...ahhh that makes sense. I was wondering why you brought up SolidScape when GaryLASQ mentioned LandScape. I figured he (Gary) just had the two confused, especially since .sol seems like it would be a more logical extension for SOLidscape than LandScape. Looks like I was the confused one.

Originally Posted by Parduz

Did you try to contact Zzzzzz (or who is mantaining VirtualScape right now)? i did a lot of time ago and he sent me the code related to the files... i dunno if i still have it and if i can share it: i just want to say that Zzzzz was a kind guy and willing to cooperate.

I didn't know that the author was still around. Well, if he/she is, I'll see if I can get the source to those functions as well, hopefully confirming what I reverse-engineered. Maybe he/she will allow me to make a small update to VirtualScape to give it direct LandScape import, and an XML import and export to allow third-party tools to flourish.

Originally Posted by Parduz

I'll search my HD one of these night and throw here what i'll found.

Thanks--that would be helpful! Adding LandScape to the export tool would be a nice bonus.

I just love the look of Gary's SVG (plus the fact that Javascript can manipulate it which could help with creating more online tools), so getting more maps to them would be great. Really the biggest "problem" is that most maps are PDF and trying to parse the images of the map layers will be an order of magnitude more difficult problem for this export tool...

[Parduz]

Ok, i've found my code.
It is a bit messed up, and i had not an XML parser, so i was treating the whole .sol file as an unique string and i tokenize it recursively extracting the various tags (yes, i am just so insane).
So, i guess that it is better to explain what i do instead of just throw here the code (but if you want it i can share it anyway).

As it can be tedious for the most readers, i'll hide it so the thread will not be too long.

Spoiler Alert!

The "interesting" part of a .sol map is contained in the levelTiles and overlayTiles tags.
levelTiles is an array of "level1 to l" tags, which are arrays of "tile0 to t" tags.

Each "tile#" tag define a piece of terrain, using these properties:

fromarray defines the surface (grass, rock, sand, water, etc..)
fromarrayindex defines the tile type (24hex, 7hex, etc). Pls note that each fromarray have its own numbering of tile types (more on this later)
frame defines the rotation of the tile (which in reality is just another index 'cause each tile is an array of different rotations)

Now, this is the "enumeration" you have to use for fromarrayindex:
what you have to look for is the name of the tile associated for each fromarrayindex value for each fromarray value.

Private Function TerrenoToTile(fromarray As String, fromarrayindex As Integer, Frame As Integer) As TileTypeEnum
    TerrenoToTile = hexNone
    Select Case fromarray
        Case "grass", "rock"
            Select Case fromarrayindex
                Case 0
                    TerrenoToTile = hex24_1 + Frame - 1
                Case 1
                    TerrenoToTile = hex07_1 + Frame - 1
                Case 2
                    TerrenoToTile = hex03_1 + Frame - 1
                Case 3
                    TerrenoToTile = hex02_1 + Frame - 1
                Case 4
                    TerrenoToTile = hex01_1 + Frame - 1
                Case Else
                    Debug.Assert 0
                    Exit Function
            End Select
        Case "sand"
            Select Case fromarrayindex
                Case 0
                    TerrenoToTile = hex07_1 + Frame - 1
                Case 1
                    TerrenoToTile = hex03_1 + Frame - 1
                Case 2
                    TerrenoToTile = hex02_1 + Frame - 1
                Case 3
                    TerrenoToTile = hex01_1 + Frame - 1
                Case Else
                    Debug.Assert 0
                    Exit Function
            End Select
        Case "water"
            TerrenoToTile = hexFlat + Frame - 1

        Case "road"
            Select Case fromarrayindex
                Case 0
                    TerrenoToTile = hex05_1 + Frame - 1
                Case 1
                    TerrenoToTile = hex02_1 + Frame - 1
                Case 2
                    TerrenoToTile = hex01_1 + Frame - 1
                Case Else
                    Debug.Assert 0
                    Exit Function
            End Select
        Case "lava"
            Select Case fromarrayindex
                Case 0
                    TerrenoToTile = hex07_1 + Frame - 1
                Case 1
                    TerrenoToTile = hex02_1 + Frame - 1
                Case 2
                    TerrenoToTile = hex01_1 + Frame - 1
                Case Else
                    Debug.Assert 0
                    Exit Function
            End Select
        Case Else
            Debug.Assert 0
            Exit Function
    End Select
End Function

Note that when fromarray is "water", fromarrayindex value is to define a water or a lava "flat" tile.
A bit messy, huh? It was a pain, yes. And we're still far from the end.

ySpot and xSpot defines the tile position on the hex grid. So, now you need to know how the grid works and how the tiles are built and centered (where's the origin).

The Hex grid in Landscape is, in reality, a square grid, where the columns are "zig-zaggin".
(this is were i have the most webs on my memory: how it works is true, the details may be not so correct... so, for example, i may confuse the rows with the columns. Pls bear with me)
So, for example, if you look at a 7Hex tile, with the three aligned hexes horizontally, you will have the left-top hex in row0, column 0, the leftmost hex in the middle row at column -1, the
hex in center at column 0 (like the left-top one) and the left-bottom hex still in column 0 (hope you can get what i mean).

Now that you know how the grid works, you need to know how the tiles are "built" on the grid, or you will not be able to place the tiles like in LandScape.
Here they are:

These are strings i was using to build my meshes in SolidScape.
The numbers are the coords of each hex in the LandScape grid system.
The various "case" statements are all the possible rotations (remember the Frame tag?) of the various tiles type.
The "0, 0" hex is the "center" of the tile, which will be placed at the ySpot and xSpot coords.
(The coords beginning with "(" should be the hexes without exposed sides, this will help you to check if you're doing right)

        Select Case i
            Case hexNone
                Descr(i) = " "
            Case hex01_1
                Descr(i) = "  0, 0 "
            Case hex02_1
                Descr(i) = "  0, 0 ;  1, 0 "
            Case hex02_2
                Descr(i) = "  0, 0 ;  0, 1 "
            Case hex02_3
                Descr(i) = "  0, 0 ; -1, 1 "
            Case hex03_1
                Descr(i) = "  0, 0 ;  1, 0 ;  0, 1 "
            Case hex03_2
                Descr(i) = "  0, -1 ; 0, 0 ;  1, 0 "
            Case hex05_1
                Descr(i) = "  0, 0 ;  1, 0 ;  2, 0 ;  3, 0 ;  4, 0 "
            Case hex05_2
                Descr(i) = "  1,-2 ;  1,-1 ;  2, 0 ;  2, 1 ;  3, 2 "
            Case hex05_3
                Descr(i) = "  3,-2 ;  2,-1 ;  2, 0 ;  1, 1 ;  1, 2 "
            Case hex07_1
                Descr(i) = "  0, 0 ;  1, 0 ; -1, 1 ; (0, 1 ;  1, 1 ;  0, 2 ;  1, 2 "
            Case hex24_1
                Descr(i) = "  0, 0 ;  1, 0 ; -1, 1 ; (0, 1 ;  1, 1 ;  0, 2 ; (1, 2 ;  2, 2 ; -1, 3 ; (0, 3 ; (1, 3 ;  2, 3 ;  3, 3 ;  0, 4 ; (1, 4 ; (2, 4 ; (3, 4 ;  4, 4 ; -1, 5 ;  0, 5 ;  1, 5 ;  2, 5 ;  3, 5 ;  4, 5 "
            Case hex24_2
                Descr(i) = "  2,-1 ;  3,-1 ;  1, 0 ;  2, 0 ; (3, 0 ;  4, 0 ; -1, 1 ;  0, 1 ; (1, 1 ; (2, 1 ;  3, 1 ;  0, 2 ; (1, 2 ; (2, 2 ;  3, 2 ;  0, 3 ; (1, 3 ;  2, 3 ;  1, 4 ; (2, 4 ;  3, 4 ;  1, 5 ;  2, 5 ;  2, 6 "
            Case hex24_3
                Descr(i) = "  1,-1 ;  1, 0 ;  2, 0 ;  3, 0 ;  0, 1 ; (1, 1 ; (2, 1 ;  3, 1 ;  4, 1 ;  0, 2 ; (1, 2 ; (2, 2 ; (3, 2 ; (4, 2 ;  5, 2 ; -1, 3 ; (0, 3 ;  1, 3 ;  2, 3 ;  3, 3 ;  4, 3 ; -1, 4 ;  0, 4 ;  1, 4 "
            Case hex24_4
                Descr(i) = "  0, 0 ;  1, 0 ;  2, 0 ;  3, 0 ;  4, 0 ;  5, 0 ;  0, 1 ; (1, 1 ; (2, 1 ; (3, 1 ;  4, 1 ;  1, 2 ; (2, 2 ; (3, 2 ; (4, 2 ;  5, 2 ;  2, 3 ;  3, 3 ;  4, 3 ;  3, 4 ;  4, 4 ;  5, 4 ;  3, 5 ;  4, 5 "
            Case hex24_5
                Descr(i) = "  1,-1 ;  1, 0 ;  2, 0 ;  0, 1 ; (1, 1 ;  2, 1 ;  1, 2 ; (2, 2 ;  3, 2 ;  0, 3 ; (1, 3 ; (2, 3 ;  3, 3 ;  0, 4 ; (1, 4 ; (2, 4 ;  3, 4 ;  4, 4 ; -1, 5 ; (0, 5 ;  1, 5 ;  2, 5 ;  0, 6 ;  1, 6 "
            Case hex24_6
                Descr(i) = "  3, 0 ;  4, 0 ;  5, 0 ; -1, 1 ;  0, 1 ;  1, 1 ;  2, 1 ; (3, 1 ;  4, 1 ; -1, 2 ; (0, 2 ; (1, 2 ; (2, 2 ; (3, 2 ;  4, 2 ; -1, 3 ;  0, 3 ; (1, 3 ; (2, 3 ;  3, 3 ;  1, 4 ;  2, 4 ;  3, 4 ;  2, 5 "
            Case hexFlat
                Descr(i) = "  0, 0 "
        End Select

Then there is the whole overlay section (the object ON the map) but i guess we can talk about them in another post

Hope that this all helps and that you can understand me.

[Parduz]

What a silence....Did i said something wrong?

[Xorlof]

Originally Posted by Parduz

What a silence....Did i said something wrong?

Nothing wrong--I just won't get a chance to work on the .sol file importer until probably AFTER next week, so it will be sometime after that that I actually complete it. Your post was informative and I'm sure will be very, very helpful in creating that, saving me lots of time. Thanks!

In other news, If all goes well, next week I should have a website up where people can upload Virtualscape files and the website will generate an instant online view of the maps (using GaryLASQ's SVG), and also generate v1.0 Hexskape XML files for downloading.

The online preview should be handy for folks who just want to see a map that is only available in VirtualScape format, but they can't (Macintosh) or don't want to install VirtualScape.

..and as I mentioned above, sometime after that goes live, I will be adding support for .sol files. I might even add an option to create a VirtualScape file from a .sol file, but I'm not sure yet.

[GaryLASQ]

Originally Posted by Xorlof

In other news, If all goes well, next week I should have a website up where people can upload Virtualscape files and the website will generate an instant online view of the maps (using GaryLASQ's SVG), and also generate v1.0 Hexskape XML files for downloading.

Maybe it should be called VirtualScape XML, instead. Make it your own -- others who want to use it can adapt; much in the same way that Parduz adapted to LandScape XML structure to use in SolidScape.

I'm not getting the time I wanted to work on Hexskape. Plus, I'm still rethinking some of the structure. Just as one example, instead of <layer><level>...</level></layer>, I'm thinking about changing this to just <step>...</step> as in an "assembly step". But, like I mentioned earlier, in an ideal world, this community would collaborate on a standard Heroscape XML specification (kinda like the way the W3C organization works on standard specs for the Web). But that takes time and effort.

Originally Posted by Xorlof

The online preview should be handy for folks who just want to see a map that is only available in VirtualScape format, but they can't (Macintosh) or don't want to install VirtualScape.

..and as I mentioned above, sometime after that goes live, I will be adding support for .sol files. I might even add an option to create a VirtualScape file from a .sol file, but I'm not sure yet.

All of this sounds very cool. I still have a handful of maps that are only recorded via LandScape (not VirtualScape or my own XML structure).

[Parduz]

Originally Posted by GaryLASQ

Just as one example, instead of <layer><level>...</level></layer>, I'm thinking about changing this to just <step>...</step> as in an "assembly step".

Well, this case seems to me a loss of flexibility.
Using various <layers>, optionally hidden, can allow to build the same map with differents sets (poor ppl like me are still building brigdes with standard pieces and underneath paperclips), just changing the tiles that compose the levels of the layers.
I admit that this feature can be the less needed at all, but why negate it?


Hi, Gary, it is a long time from out last talk

[GaryLASQ]

Originally Posted by Parduz

Hi, Gary, it is a long time from out last talk

Yes, too long.

Originally Posted by Parduz

Well, this case seems to me a loss of flexibility.
Using various <layers>, optionally hidden, can allow to build the same map with differents sets (poor ppl like me are still building brigdes with standard pieces and underneath paperclips), just changing the tiles that compose the levels of the layers.
I admit that this feature can be the less needed at all, but why negate it?

With my current structure, calling it <step/> instead of <layer/> makes no difference. And I think "step" is a better word, because that's what it is, another step in the assembly of a map.

I'm toying with the idea of not requiring the <level/> element because it can be determined by knowing the step and position of placement of a tile (or other terrain object, or stack of objects). No time right now to explain in more detail. I'll come back to that later...

[lefton4ya]

Originally Posted by Xorlof

Nothing wrong--I just won't get a chance to work on the .sol file importer until probably AFTER next week, so it will be sometime after that that I actually complete it. Your post was informative and I'm sure will be very, very helpful in creating that, saving me lots of time. Thanks!

In other news, If all goes well, next week I should have a website up where people can upload Virtualscape files and the website will generate an instant online view of the maps (using GaryLASQ's SVG), and also generate v1.0 Hexskape XML files for downloading.

The online preview should be handy for folks who just want to see a map that is only available in VirtualScape format, but they can't (Macintosh) or don't want to install VirtualScape.

..and as I mentioned above, sometime after that goes live, I will be adding support for .sol files. I might even add an option to create a VirtualScape file from a .sol file, but I'm not sure yet.

Now that Xorlof won the last giveaway, maybe he can work on this again. I would love to see online displays of maps that doesn't force people to make PDFs and JPGs/PNGs from VirtualScape.

[GaryLASQ]

Originally Posted by lefton4ya

I would love to see online displays of maps that doesn't force people to make PDFs and JPGs/PNGs from VirtualScape.

SVG has matured nicely over the years. Basically it has been pulled into the specification for HTML5, so a browser that claims to fully implement HTML5 must also natively support SVG.

Originally Posted by Xorlof

I still have to do some cleanup of the scenario text to convert it from RTF to HTML or something, but the hard part (figuring out how the data is stored) is done. Before I mess around with the RTF, I'll first do the code to create an XML or JSON representation, so that others can start working with the file format I create.

Would love to see that export tool. The text file of info is nice, but not nearly as nice as an XML or JSON representation would be.

Question, could it work both ways? Could the tool read an XML file and create a .HSC file for VS?

Xorlof, if you are able to devote time to this again, you may want to start your own thread called something like "VirtualScape Export/Import Tool" perhaps.