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C3G Legacy Library This is the archive for all the designs released in the original era of C3G. Feel free to post any figure specific questions in their individual books.

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  #121  
Old September 16th, 2020, 12:18 AM
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Re: The Book of Black Canary (III) (Public Playtesting)

Restang's tests:
Quote:
Originally Posted by redstang
C3G STANDARD PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE PLAYTEST UNIT: Black Canary III

Army Test
Map: Black Root (BOV)
Units: Team A: Superman 440, Batman 250, Black Canary 210, Green Arrow 210
Team B: Martian Manhunter 300, Miss Martian 200, Emma Frost 170, Sage 190, Psylocke 250

Who won? List figures remaining in the winning army (include life remaining for heroes): Team A with Black Canary and Green Arrow destroyed. Batman with no wounds, and Superman with 4 wounds.

Green Arrow was the first member of the Justice League to take multiple wounds. Black Canary was able to successfully use her Canary Cry to place a wound on Psylocke and Emma Frost. Black Canary bonded well with Superman and Green Arrow and was able to use Into the Fray 3 times to add additional turns to Superman’s OMs along with Green Arrow. Black Canary was the first member of the Justice League to be destroyed, but while she was active her League Chairwoman power was extremely convenient in strategizing OM placement. Superman was able to clean up after Green Arrow and Black Canary perished. Batman is most useful in this type of build by staying back and acting as a support unit.

___________________________________________________________

Army Test
Map: Black Root (BOV)
Units: Team A: Wonder Woman 310, Batman 250, Green Arrow 210, Black Canary 210
Team B: Bane 190, Parademon 150, Deadshot 150, Scandal Savage 200, Knockout 290


Who won? List figures remaining in the winning army (include life remaining for heroes): Team B, Bane with two life left and Deadshot with one life left.


Wonder Woman took the lead into the fray and Arrow and Batman followed. Arrow and Deadshot traded wound markers and Knockout moved in and was able swap spaces with Batman, taking height advantage as Wonder Woman’s lasso roll failed to stop Knockout's movement. Knockout ended up destroying Batman. Arrow left engagement with Knockout in order to range attack Deadshot. Arrow was able to used Arrow to the Rescue once and Arrows of Justice to attack 4 times in one turn before losing the battle to Deadshot. Canary rolled for Canary Cry three times and was successful twice, wounding Knockout and Scandal Savage. Canary used Into the Fray three times with Wonder Woman. Scandal Savage proved difficult to eliminate and Parademon blew himself up without injuring Wonder Woman. Ultimately it came down to an injured Wonder Woman versus Bane and Deadshot.


THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT'S COST, BALANCE, & DRAFTABILITY: With a Justice League build, I think she is worth 200 and is definitely draftable. I don’t know if I would draft her if I wasn’t building a team around the blue justice league markers though.

GENERAL THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT: Even though the Wonder Woman team lost, I enjoyed running her with Wonder Woman instead of Superman because of the added attack die from WW. The League was rolling cold attack die that game, but it helped to replace the lack of some type of martial arts master attack and defense power on her card.


I played League Chairwoman to allow Canary to move unrevealed orders markers without having to reveal an order marker to do so. That may be an area of clarification needed if I played the card wrong. But it was nice being able to wait to move OMs as the round developed. The power becomes less important as the game goes on and figures are eliminated so I felt myself doing a balancing act, determining when I should start dumping markers to use Into the Fray and giving up the Chairwoman benefit.

I see this card as a great addition to a Justice League build. However, in a non-Justice League build, I don’t see the 200 point value.
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  #122  
Old September 16th, 2020, 12:50 AM
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Re: The Book of Black Canary (III) (Public Playtesting)

Here's the overall results.

@200 3-2
Close win. (Arkham)
Close loss. (Arkham)
Close loss. (Arch-Vile)
Close-Medium win. (Arch-Vile)
Medium win. (Arkham)

@210 3-1
Close win. (Nobody)
Close loss. (redstang)
Close-Medium win. (Nobody)
Close-Medium win. (redstang)

One of Nobody's wins did have a slight misplay on Superman resulting in some extra wounds to the opposing army, so that would have likely been a little closer.

All accounted for, after reading through all the results and thoughts, as well as any luck factors and damage reports, I am happy to move forward at 220-230, with maybe a slight preference for 220. Feel free to state your preference with your vote and we can gauge the room!

I propose a vote to move to Final Editing.
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  #123  
Old September 16th, 2020, 01:25 AM
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Re: The Book of Black Canary (III) (Vote for Final Editing)

220 seems good to me. Yea at either point cost.

C3G can be played with official Heroscape, but it's not recommended.


DISCLAIMER: C3G claims no ownership of the characters or artwork used for C3G customs. All rights for the characters belong to their respective publishers/creators. C3G cards are not intended for sale, and C3G does not authorize any party to profit from C3G cards.

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  #124  
Old September 16th, 2020, 02:06 AM
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Re: The Book of Black Canary (III) (Vote for Final Editing)

Yea at either
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  #125  
Old September 16th, 2020, 02:15 AM
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Re: The Book of Black Canary (III) (Vote for Final Editing)

Yea. I prefer 230, since she’s still 3-1 at 210.
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  #126  
Old September 16th, 2020, 02:54 AM
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Re: The Book of Black Canary (III) (Vote for Final Editing)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrNobody View Post
Yea. I prefer 230, since she’s still 3-1 at 210.
Just to explain my reasoning a bit more, as I don't want you to feel ignored or that I don't value your opinion.

I do think your 2nd game was close enough that it could have gone either way had Superman not allowed himself to swap out w/ Hawkwoman at +2 def.

I also think that matchup favored the JL on paper, with 4 decent attacker/defenders vs. 6 average normal attackers w/ an overall lighter synergy tie that was quick to eliminate. Fwiw, I don't see redstang's 1st army(Martian Manhunter, Miss Martian, Emma Frost, Sage, Psylocke) that went up against the JL and lost as being favorable on paper either.

She also went 3-2 at 200, fwiw, one of those wins being due to the heavy luck of her teammates.

I absolutely understand your desire to make sure things are being kept on the safe end, which is why I am fine with 220-230, whichever is the general consensus, just figured I'd help clarify here if it helps any why I lean towards 220.

All that said, I am totally ok with altering Into the Fray to take place before that figure's turn, to eliminate Sub-Zero's Ice Blast from benefiting her as well. Mechanically, that shouldn't change any results beyond that particular combo.
Quote:
INTO THE FRAY
Once per player turn, before taking a turn with a friendly figure, you may remove a Justice League Marker from this card to move Black Canary up to 4 spaces and attack. If you do, that friendly figure cannot move during its turn.
So hopefully that eases any concern you have from that particular combo, which I agree is premiere, and it certainly doesn't need to be. Good thinking on your part to try that.
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  #127  
Old September 16th, 2020, 09:28 AM
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Re: The Book of Black Canary (III) (Vote for Final Editing)

yea, happy with either point cost
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  #128  
Old September 16th, 2020, 09:34 AM
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Re: The Book of Black Canary (III) (Vote for Final Editing)

This passes.

We can roll with 220 for now, and we'll see how things pan out once the rest of the Champions are completed. Ultimately, I'd like whichever point total makes for more thematic standard army point totals. So we can always adjust to 230 if we find that to be a more ideal cost. Adjusting up after the fact is always easier than adjusting down.
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  #129  
Old September 16th, 2020, 09:45 AM
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Re: The Book of Black Canary (III) (Vote 4 On Deck)

I propose a vote to move to On Deck.
@Arch-vile
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  #130  
Old September 16th, 2020, 09:51 AM
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Re: The Book of Black Canary (III) (Vote 4 On Deck)

yea
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  #131  
Old September 16th, 2020, 10:12 AM
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Re: The Book of Black Canary (III) (Vote 4 On Deck)

yEA
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  #132  
Old September 16th, 2020, 10:20 AM
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Re: The Book of Black Canary (III) (Vote 4 On Deck)

Yea. Thanks for explaining your reasoning Ark!
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