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HeroScape General Discussion General discussions of packaging, terrain, components, etc. If it doesn't fit in any other official category, put it here.


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  #13  
Old February 5th, 2015, 09:08 AM
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Joseph Sweeney Joseph Sweeney is offline
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Re: Quick Apology

I'm assuming this thread was made to adresss the previous strategy article written by Owlman?

I didn't look at thread while the posting was going on. I went on maybe a week after the thing had died down, and I was very near to handing out some neg rep... and it wasn't going to Owlman. The only reason I didn't was because the argument had died down and I didn't want to re-spark it. I think many of our members were overly rude, something which I can claim I have very rarely seen in this community. And quite frankly, I was rather disappointed. I won't mention any names, but yes, many of you took this a step to far, and to take it a step farther, there was at least one hypocrite in the ranks of those giving Owlman a hard time.

I do not think Owlman owed an apology, but I can think of at least two people who owed Owlman an apology, IMHO. I do, however, salute Owlman for being the bigger person in this and coming out with and apology. That takes a big man, Owlman!

Now, if this whole thing was up to me (and it's not) I would lock this thread, and leave it as the beautiful thing that it was before the disagreement started. This stands as (no matter who is in the rights) a message of forgiveness and moving on as community together, and it seems disrespectful for us to clutter Owlman's thread -- that was meant to bring peace -- up with our disagreements.

~JS
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  #14  
Old February 5th, 2015, 09:25 AM
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Re: Quick Apology

I admire Owlman's restraint for staying out of this thread post-necro. Let's let it drift down into the abyss again, please.

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  #15  
Old February 5th, 2015, 11:11 PM
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Re: Quick Apology

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper View Post
I've seen it used and abandoned on other websites, and I've seen mods here talk about how much of a burden it is to deal with.

But.

But, but, but, but.

It allows for established users to vent privately, anonymously, with the click of a button. Without it, there would be more flame. I suspect it does more good than bad, despite the occasional well-intended complaints about it.
DadScaper, you've been here a long time and I respect your opinions and the way you conduct yourself. I just can't agree with you on the neg rep, and it almost feels like you can see where the anti-neg reppers are coming from. When you say it allows 'established users', that reeks to me of elitism. The only thing you need to give neg rep is to pay as a supporter of the site (unless that's changed). So in fact a guy like me, who was pretty active about five years ago and still drops by from time to time can leave pos rep (and often do) but I can't leave neg rep because of money.

How neg rep reduces flame wars is beyond me, DS. Especially considering how one actually gains the ability to do so. Back when I read my neg reps, only one every had a name attached to it. The others (and I brought it up to Aldin, to his great credit, he actually cares) would leave insults, rude remarks and the like. The exact thing that STARTS flame wars in the first place, AND it's anonymous! I actually responded to my neg repper and we sorted it out (if I recall correctly), and the pos rep more often than not ALWAYS had the nickname added.

The only reason you don't see all-out flame wars due to neg rep is that it has become like Rule #1 of Fight Club: You don't talk about Neg Rep. All you get all these backers of that rule who can't seem to understand that negative, anonymous comments left by paying board supporters is actually detrimental in every way. Is neg rep supposed to persuade the outlier to have to publicly apologize? Secretly shame the person into some type of different behaviour pattern?

You know what's a really good way of sending a message to someone you disagree with, yet costs nothing and still doesn't need to be included in open threads? A personal message!...but then that would disable the anonymity. Can you imagine if that's how people dealt with things in the real world?...oh wait: they do just this kind of thing, and it only takes a quick read of any popular video's comment section on Youtube. Fake accounts of people scraping the bottom of the barrel when it comes to insults and utterly repugnant behaviour. All under a nice veil of secrecy.

And yet when complaint such as mine are made, you get some people who say, "You don't like it? Then leave!". Yeah...that's a great way to get more people on this site. And you really don't know what kinds of folks you're chasing away from here because of that mentality.

I've been on BGG for ten years (lurked even longer than that) and you've got all kinds of folks arguing, discussing and getting into it over all kinds of games. And the vibe I've gotten from people over there about Heroscapers (those who care to discuss it) is this: Heroscapers is a wonderful resource for the game, filled with passionate members who contribute a lot not only to the original game, but the ongoing custom scene. But do they want to actually join and take part in the forum? I can only speak to the admittedly relatively few people (12 or so?) I've spoken to and they literally bring up things like this: grammar police, "use the search function" police, fears of ever bringing up a topic that (gasp!) has already been brought up before, AND the concept of neg rep...mostly used when anybody (back when the game was in print) voiced their displeasure with some of the waves, or the general direction the game was taking. The people I've discussed it just stick to BGG, and come here only to lurk and use the excellent resources. But does that really build a community?

Anyways, there's my two cents on a dead horse if I've ever seen one. And finally, DS, I gotta say that slightly over a month from the original post does not a necro thread make. This is a viable topic as much as any other, but sometimes it takes someone to voice their thoughts to get the discussion happening. I think this forum would improve immensely if neg rep went the way of the dodo.

If I had my way, the whole concept of rep would be mothballed: what purpose does it serve? Are my contributions to discussion any less valid than someone else, or the fact that they are a site supporter puts them up on a pedestal of sorts? So many other forums I frequent (many with average ages far younger than you would expect to find here) have far more members, more noobs, and far more discussion, even with all the 'negative aspects' that things like 'rep' are meant to combat. Foolishness is dealt with by admins and the world still turns. Thanks for reading.
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  #16  
Old February 5th, 2015, 11:29 PM
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Re: Quick Apology

I understand. It's a fair discussion.

Thank you for the kind words. When I dock someone - and it has happened, occasionally - I do a couple things.

1. I (almost always) leave it anonymously.
2. I am very clear about why I did it. And never rude. Name calling? I believe you, but I'm disappointed to hear it. I've gotten a couple ones that were silly, but I laughed them off.

Then, because I've communicated privately, I can let it go. Also, because it's anonymous, it's over, and because I was clear about why I did it, the person can either accept it (fine) or ignore it (not my business). It doesn't turn into a back-and-forth thing. That's how it's supposed to work. I wrote it up in a post in my sig, precisely because I don't want people getting agitated about it needlessly.

I suppose I am aware that some people do not use docks the same way I do.

All I know for sure is that I find this forum far more genteel and welcoming than BGG. You describe "elitism" here, and maybe it feels that way, but I think people there are very quick to be sarcastic or otherwise rude to each other. I prefer it here. What led to this thread was very unusual, in my humble opinion, for this site, and it really wasn't bad, compared to the rest of the internet.

The rep system is something that I think reasonable people can disagree about. As to whether your post was truly a "necro," it wasn't, really. I confess it.

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  #17  
Old February 6th, 2015, 01:52 AM
CanScape CanScape is offline
 
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Re: Quick Apology

For some reason I thought that I wasn't able to view my neg reps, but since it's built into the user CP screen, I did get to see the negs...and positives, that, like I have already stated and believe to be the worst part of the system: the positives all left initials so I could see who they were, the negs acted the part of Mr Anon and left some wordy insults with (surprise, surprise) no way to identify themselves. It's usually here where I'd say something like "I'm sure they wrung their chubby little Cheeto-stained hands together, hunched over the keyboard in their parent's basement, cackling with the nerd sweat dripping off their noses, saying 'HA, this will for CERTAIN teach him!', all the while waiting for someone else to cross their path so that they might unsheath their "Power of the Neg Rep" to right the wrongs of the universe...

...yeah, that's what I 'would' have said back in the day

DS, getting a neg rep can neither be accepted or ignored. It can only be absorbed, as it usually ends up with a nice zinger tacked on for good measure. Although I do remember getting a pos rep once, but the person tacked on an insult just to make sure I'd question their sanity.

I'll stand by my position, and will be happy the day neg reps get the boot. I promise I won't make any more comments about it, DS, I swear!....well, in this thread at least. Thanks for being reasonable, and I say that honestly.
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  #18  
Old February 6th, 2015, 11:22 AM
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Re: Quick Apology

Quote:
Originally Posted by CanScape View Post
For some reason I thought that I wasn't able to view my neg reps, but since it's built into the user CP screen, I did get to see the negs...and positives, that, like I have already stated and believe to be the worst part of the system: the positives all left initials so I could see who they were, the negs acted the part of Mr Anon and left some wordy insults with (surprise, surprise) no way to identify themselves. It's usually here where I'd say something like "I'm sure they wrung their chubby little Cheeto-stained hands together, hunched over the keyboard in their parent's basement, cackling with the nerd sweat dripping off their noses, saying 'HA, this will for CERTAIN teach him!', all the while waiting for someone else to cross their path so that they might unsheath their "Power of the Neg Rep" to right the wrongs of the universe...

...yeah, that's what I 'would' have said back in the day

DS, getting a neg rep can neither be accepted or ignored. It can only be absorbed, as it usually ends up with a nice zinger tacked on for good measure. Although I do remember getting a pos rep once, but the person tacked on an insult just to make sure I'd question their sanity.

I'll stand by my position, and will be happy the day neg reps get the boot. I promise I won't make any more comments about it, DS, I swear!....well, in this thread at least. Thanks for being reasonable, and I say that honestly.
Not to drag this out any more, but CanScape, if a user gets a rude or otherwise improper negrep, it should absolutely be reported to an Admin; NegRep comments are not there to allow a person to annonymously become a jerk. I'm not going to go into the positive or negative aspects of rep here. That is more for the Your REPUTATION and You (pt.2) thread.

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  #19  
Old February 6th, 2015, 12:06 PM
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Re: Quick Apology

If someone wants to discuss the neg rep aspect of the rep system, please kindly do so in its own thread.

(Not that I'm suggesting anyone bring that discussion up, but members of course are always welcome to question why things are how they are and/or make suggestions.)

There is nothing more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity. --MLK
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