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  #49  
Old July 11th, 2019, 01:05 PM
EricTheGreat1999 EricTheGreat1999 is offline
 
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Re: The Book of Arrow Gruts

Quote:
Originally Posted by superfrog View Post
But if you're just going to go to a bunch of books and say "this unit sucks" without actually looking for discussion, then I'd kindly recommend that you stop.
If you don't want me to comment that's up to you- heck you're a moderator, so feel free to ban my account if you'd like

Quote:
Originally Posted by lefton4ya View Post
See recent Unit Debate # 69 Arrow Gruts vs Blade Gruts for which the Arrow Gruts are just edging out the Blade Gruts. Basically in competitive play people use at least 1 Swog for every 2 squads of Arrow Gruts, in addition to Krug and usually Raelin. In the hands of a good player this is a pretty good army - not the best but better than most.

Arrow Gruts
  • Jexik: Arrow Gruts- Bonding, potential for higher attacks, cheap cost. Once one of the most competitive squads around, they seem to be in decline. B+
  • OEAO: Arrow Gruts- The worst orc squad still has quite a bit going for them with a great threat range and solid bonding choices. Swogs make them offensively relevant and Krug is a tank. B+
  • Cleon: Tier 7 (54/208)
  • dok (VC inclusive): B+

Blade Gruts
  • Jexik: Blade Gruts- Though weak in attack and defense, Grimnak and a cheap cost keep the Blades reasonably competitive. B+
  • OEAO: A-
  • Cleon: Tier 7 (57/208)
  • dok (VC inclusive): B+
I've seen the thread: it's interesting because even if players are encouraged to play both the Blade Gruts and the Arrow Gruts with different hero figures in order to bond, the Blade Gruts still have better stats than their archer counterparts. There's also some good Orc Champions such as Tornak and Grimnak that could pair well with a squad or two of Blade Gruts.

Putting Arrow Gruts with a Beast such as Krug is interesting, but it doesn't make their stats any better. And again, using a Swog Rider isn't very useful if your opponent would kill the hero with a ranged attack.
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  #50  
Old July 11th, 2019, 01:12 PM
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Re: The Book of Arrow Gruts

You're allowed to take as many Swog Riders as you like, and their bonus stacks. If you've got an Arrow Grut next to 2 Swog Riders on height, it has 4 attack and defense. Throw in Krug, and you can get 5 solid attacks in one order marker. As long as you can keep opponent's figures away from that pod setup, you're golden.

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  #51  
Old July 11th, 2019, 02:11 PM
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Re: The Book of Arrow Gruts

Don’t mix breakfast foods with dinner foods and the whole meal comes across better. The only potential exception is bacon, but even that isn’t a given. I’ve had food that tasted better without bacon than with.

The same can be said for Arrow/Blade Gruts. Don’t take both squads in the same build, it dilutes it. If you want a common option to back up the Arrow Gruts, toss in more Arrow Gruts and Swog Riders. Heck, take 6 Swogs and end up with an Arrow Grut with 7 Attack and 7 Defense.

Learn what the common trait on army cards means. What it really means you can do, then come back to discuss unit power.

PS: Arrow Gruts are the only ranged squad with a bonding power on their card in the game. That counts for something.

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  #52  
Old July 11th, 2019, 09:55 PM
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Re: The Book of Arrow Gruts

Quote:
Originally Posted by EricTheGreat1999 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by superfrog View Post
But if you're just going to go to a bunch of books and say "this unit sucks" without actually looking for discussion, then I'd kindly recommend that you stop.
If you don't want me to comment that's up to you- heck you're a moderator, so feel free to ban my account if you'd like

Quote:
Originally Posted by lefton4ya View Post
See recent Unit Debate # 69 Arrow Gruts vs Blade Gruts for which the Arrow Gruts are just edging out the Blade Gruts. Basically in competitive play people use at least 1 Swog for every 2 squads of Arrow Gruts, in addition to Krug and usually Raelin. In the hands of a good player this is a pretty good army - not the best but better than most.

Arrow Gruts
  • Jexik: Arrow Gruts- Bonding, potential for higher attacks, cheap cost. Once one of the most competitive squads around, they seem to be in decline. B+
  • OEAO: Arrow Gruts- The worst orc squad still has quite a bit going for them with a great threat range and solid bonding choices. Swogs make them offensively relevant and Krug is a tank. B+
  • Cleon: Tier 7 (54/208)
  • dok (VC inclusive): B+

Blade Gruts
  • Jexik: Blade Gruts- Though weak in attack and defense, Grimnak and a cheap cost keep the Blades reasonably competitive. B+
  • OEAO: A-
  • Cleon: Tier 7 (57/208)
  • dok (VC inclusive): B+
I've seen the thread: it's interesting because even if players are encouraged to play both the Blade Gruts and the Arrow Gruts with different hero figures in order to bond, the Blade Gruts still have better stats than their archer counterparts. There's also some good Orc Champions such as Tornak and Grimnak that could pair well with a squad or two of Blade Gruts.

Putting Arrow Gruts with a Beast such as Krug is interesting, but it doesn't make their stats any better. And again, using a Swog Rider isn't very useful if your opponent would kill the hero with a ranged attack.
I lost to an arrow grut build for the final game that cost me the top spot in a tournament. Thanks to @BiggaBullfrog s build, it showed me that they can be highly competitive especially with a handful of swog riders. I think what superfrog is telling you in regards to leaving comments like they suck and the like isnt productive whereas if you put in to the conversation in a more positive way you could learn how to better use the units by more experienced players. Ive been playing Heroscape for at least 12 years and I learn new stuff quite often. Welcome to this site. If you put in a little positivity you'll realize this is a super fun place to hang out.
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  #53  
Old July 11th, 2019, 10:44 PM
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Re: The Book of Arrow Gruts

Agreed with the above. Played by an experienced player, and played right Arrow Grut armies (built right) can devastate opponents. Throw in at least 3-4 Swogs with 2-3 squads of Arrow Gruts and you can stack the Swog bonuses really well if/when you grab height. Add in Mimring for long ranged attacks to draw in your opponent, and then Krug to smack em when they do come in and you've got a devastating combo. I've been beaten by Arrow Gruts many a time in tournaments because of how strong they can be in the right hands.

Also agreed with the above comment by Flameslayer...you don't play Arrow Gruts with any of the other blade or heavy gruts in the same army. I mean, you can of course, but they are strongest on their own with no other squad types in there.

Maybe you should play one of us in an online game and we can show you what we mean
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  #54  
Old August 13th, 2019, 05:40 PM
EricTheGreat1999 EricTheGreat1999 is offline
 
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Re: The Book of Arrow Gruts

Quote:
Originally Posted by flameslayer93 View Post
The same can be said for Arrow/Blade Gruts. Donít take both squads in the same build, it dilutes it. If you want a common option to back up the Arrow Gruts, toss in more Arrow Gruts and Swog Riders. Heck, take 6 Swogs and end up with an Arrow Grut with 7 Attack and 7 Defense.

Learn what the common trait on army cards means. What it really means you can do, then come back to discuss unit power.

Well of course, that leads to a conversation of what army build to make, considering how many points you're given. But in regards to learning what the common trait means, then I have to tell you I do not own 6 swogs, or even 6 squads of Orc archers, and therefore cannot make the "awesome" army that you are proposing.

Even if I did have an abundant amount of Orc Archers and Swogs, I don't think that making them into some kind of horde and clogging up the board makes them any better. Why not spend the points on ranged squads with better stats, even if they may lack bonding opportunities?
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  #55  
Old August 13th, 2019, 05:44 PM
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Re: The Book of Arrow Gruts

2 or 3 of each (AGs and Swogs) is quite sufficient. 3 of each is less than 200 points, and gives lots of room to add beefy bonding heroes like Krug and Mimring in a standard army.

customs/maps/c3v/sov

how to:
make a card/post your maps

google sheets:
ohs link generator/attack outcomes

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  #56  
Old August 13th, 2019, 06:10 PM
EricTheGreat1999 EricTheGreat1999 is offline
 
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Re: The Book of Arrow Gruts

Quote:
Originally Posted by superfrog View Post
2 or 3 of each (AGs and Swogs) is quite sufficient. 3 of each is less than 200 points, and gives lots of room to add beefy bonding heroes like Krug and Mimring in a standard army.
Too bad the real life price of a Swog isn't that cheap

Didn't realize that Mimring bonded; still rather unfortunate that I've only got Krug and Mimring so the options aren't really abundant
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  #57  
Old August 13th, 2019, 07:49 PM
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Re: The Book of Arrow Gruts

Quote:
Originally Posted by EricTheGreat1999 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by superfrog View Post
2 or 3 of each (AGs and Swogs) is quite sufficient. 3 of each is less than 200 points, and gives lots of room to add beefy bonding heroes like Krug and Mimring in a standard army.
Too bad the real life price of a Swog isn't that cheap

Didn't realize that Mimring bonded; still rather unfortunate that I've only got Krug and Mimring so the options aren't really abundant
Unfortunately most of the power of Arrow Grut builds comes from Swoggies. At least Kruggles is a damn good hero.

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  #58  
Old August 14th, 2019, 02:44 AM
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Re: The Book of Arrow Gruts

Quote:
Originally Posted by EricTheGreat1999 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by flameslayer93 View Post
The same can be said for Arrow/Blade Gruts. Don’t take both squads in the same build, it dilutes it. If you want a common option to back up the Arrow Gruts, toss in more Arrow Gruts and Swog Riders. Heck, take 6 Swogs and end up with an Arrow Grut with 7 Attack and 7 Defense.

Learn what the common trait on army cards means. What it really means you can do, then come back to discuss unit power.

Well of course, that leads to a conversation of what army build to make, considering how many points you're given. But in regards to learning what the common trait means, then I have to tell you I do not own 6 swogs, or even 6 squads of Orc archers, and therefore cannot make the "awesome" army that you are proposing.

Even if I did have an abundant amount of Orc Archers and Swogs, I don't think that making them into some kind of horde and clogging up the board makes them any better. Why not spend the points on ranged squads with better stats, even if they may lack bonding opportunities?
Power rankings judge units on how they perform in armies at the 400-600 points range. It is assumed that as many commons as necessary are available. The problem come about when you don't have access to a sufficient number squads. When this is the case it can be difficult to see the full potential of certain units.

Krug
Raelin
Arrows x3
Swog x3

This army won the first ever Gencon Main Event (the largest and most prestigious tournament). While the meta has evolved Arrow Gruts remain a powerful unit.
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