Politics, Religion, and Morality

[Ranior]

I enjoy discussing political matters, and recently have been reading up on some issues as well. However, rarely do I get into good discussions with others such matters. With a presidential election nearly here, and the first one I can vote in, I'm interested in hearing some other people's opinions and coming to an even better understanding of some of the feelings and thoughts of others. I don't get to discuss these matters with generally intelligent people too often, and it seems in today's political landscape real issues don't get discussed, at least not rationally or reasonably all too often.

I will start out by saying I am socially liberal, and still figuring a lot of things out in the fiscal world, but probably am a left leaning moderate there. I still like to hear a lot of opinions, but this is where I am coming from.

But I guess I should make the point of this thread clear: I want to have a spot to discuss some of the political issues of this campaign, as well as the final 3 weeks up the election.

I want to be clear too on what I think should be some of the guidlines for such a discussion: All should be able to have their opinion heard and stated, and we should treat each other with respect and kindness. The goal of our discussions should be to understand each other better, not to prove ourselves correct or change each other's minds. At least not immediately. With these sorts of issues, it is surely going to take some time and thought to lead to a change of opinion, and therefore our goal should not be to attack or demean, but to accept and try to understand each other better. I guess my main point here is that in my experiences, the reason some people have such a hatred for discussing politics is because too many feel that whenever you are talking politics you must debate, and try to force or prove your opinion correct. This mindset leads to yelling, anger, and nothing successful. So instead, let us try and make sure this thread is respectful of all opinions, and we are here to understand each other's points better.





Finally, I just want to be clear, anything really is up for fair game in my opinion, if it pertains to the upcoming elections of 2012. I'm just feeling like there should be a good and appropriate spot to do so on this forum. Bring up a topic if you have some feelings or thoughts, or want to get some clarification, and let's help each other come to a better understanding and be more informed.






To start off the discussion, I shall again mention my bias--I am liberal, and currently feel like Obama is who I shall be voting for. Additionally I associate myself with a Democrat primarily, although I have voted for some 3rd party candidates in some elections, particularly some Green party candidates.

But to start off, I was watching the Vice Presidential debate, and noticed how Paul Ryan several times mentioned that the Republicans had at times tried to work together with Democrats on bipartisianship, but were spurned or turned away. From my memory of the past 4 years, this is simply not true. So my question though is two-fold: Can anyone point out some instances of what Paul Ryan is speaking of? I could easily be forgetting some instances, and just remembering some of the statements that upset me (such as some high ranking Republicans making it clear that their goal was to make sure Obama could not do anything and make sure he got voted out--doesn't sound like working together to me.) Next off, do others think Paul Ryan is lying then, and if so, is he doing it purposefully and knowingly?


~Ranior, who will be very interested to see where this may go, or if it even takes off

[MegaSilver]

I'm Independent. I vote for who I think is the best candidate. Yes, I'll admit I usually will vote Republican. But, I think Obama's still the best vote. If I could have voted for him last time, I would have. I'll be voting for him this time.

MegaSilver, who knows Ranior asked more than just that, but doesn't have the time to answer them all at the moment.

[flameslayer93]

This is also the first year I'll be able to vote, so yay(?) for that. That being said, I'm not sure who, if either I'm going to be voting for. I don't really like either of the guys.

I'm not good at discussing past a gut feeling though.

*Subscribes to thread*

[Ranior]

Originally Posted by MegaSilver

I'm Independent. I vote for who I think is the best candidate. Yes, I'll admit I usually will vote Republican. But, I think Obama's still the best vote. If I could have voted for him last time, I would have. I'll be voting for him this time.

MegaSilver, who knows Ranior asked more than just that, but doesn't have the time to answer them all at the moment.

No worries good sir...if it wasn't clear, my main purpose of opening this thread was to offer a good place to discuss the full gambit of the upcoming elections facing our nation.

The only other thread I found was the "Scapers as a voting block" thing which was a simple poll with no replies...

So your response is perfectly fine. I want to make it very clear that anyone who wants to post some thoughts on their political opinions is more than welcome to do so. Just remember to be respectful, polite, and accepting. (Which you of course MegaSilver are perfectly fine doing thus far).

I guess my real main point is I just want to promote some discussion, wherever it goes. I'm currently interested/fascinated by a great many questions in the political realm, and intend to get through a good bit of them hopefully.

[MegaSilver]

My post was more of a subscription post than anything. I figured my response was fine, as you said, just so I could state something simple. I meant that I would kind of like to answer some of your questions, but I don't have the time to at the moment.

[Nukatha]

Personally, I continue to be a fan of free market, and less nationwide regulation.

I think communities can, in general, run school systems better than states and nations.

Also, i prefer aid to those needing it to be by donations from those who are well off, as opposed to mandated donations in the form of taxes.

That being said, I am a huge proponent of the Space Program and intend to work in the manned spaceflight program, and therefore believe NASA (as the best space exploration program humans have made) ought to get a few percentage points of the federal budget.
Space exploration, in the long run, is the single most important endeavor that humans can work on. Eventually, this planet will be burned to death by the sun as it expands, and by that time, we had better be someplace else.
Furthermore, technological advancements from the space program are applicable in daily life (just think of all the things we can do with the hundreds of satellites orbiting earth now), and the research, development, and manufacturing of large launch vehicles gives thousands of people careers.

[Ranior]

Huh...this thread hasn't got much attention yet. Ah well. Next off, unless Nukatha is a bit older than I think he is, we're all first time presidential election voters in here.

Ah well. I'm looking forward to the debate tonight, it will be interesting to hear what they have to say.

Originally Posted by Nukatha

Also, i prefer aid to those needing it to be by donations from those who are well off, as opposed to mandated donations in the form of taxes.

First off, what aid are you talking about? I'm assuming you're talking about such things as food stamps and unemployment benefits? I'd like to know more of course, but I just have to respond a bit to this.

Food Stamps is hardly a program that cost our government a significant portion of anything. And let me ask this question to you in another form: Do you want people to be able to eat food, or go hungry? Quite simply in our advanced society, I believe it only makes sense to make sure that the very base necessities for living are covered for by those that need them. Additionally, I think it is disingenuous to state that those who are well off or rich are the only ones paying for this....everyone's taxes go to these things. The rich have the ability to help out the poor, and the government can ensure this happens, in an efficient enough manner. I think it would be a folly to expect that those who have the means would ensure that those who need it would get the basic neccessities that they need.

Of course if I am misinterpreting you, please speak up. You left a pretty vague statement out there, but I'd like to understand it more....particularly with the next statement:

That being said, I am a huge proponent of the Space Program and intend to work in the manned spaceflight program, and therefore believe NASA (as the best space exploration program humans have made) ought to get a few percentage points of the federal budget.
Space exploration, in the long run, is the single most important endeavor that humans can work on. Eventually, this planet will be burned to death by the sun as it expands, and by that time, we had better be someplace else.
Furthermore, technological advancements from the space program are applicable in daily life (just think of all the things we can do with the hundreds of satellites orbiting earth now), and the research, development, and manufacturing of large launch vehicles gives thousands of people careers.

First off, I like the idea of spending some more on NASA, and research, and science and math, etc. It seems like the technological advances, and the knowledge gained by space missions are a worthwhile endeavor.

Next off, the sun is not going to expand and destroy our Earth for another few billion years. Quite likely it will take longer for that to happen than the history of life on Earth thus far. Therefore I find the idea that we should be worrying about finding a way to move on to another planet to just flat out be a folly, particularly with the fact that the proliferation of nuclear weapons may lead to us wiping ourselves out first, our the fact that global warming and the spewing of chemicals into our atmosphere may have impacts in the next few centuries that would make this planet inhospitable to us. It would seem to me that spending money on ensuring our survival should start with green energies and other such environmental protections.


Finally though...you support everyone having to pay for NASA, but think that "those who need aid" should get their support from individuals who desire to donate to the needy? Shouldn't everyone be allowed to choose to donate to fund NASA, rather than force it on everyone? Heck, if you support the idea of less government intervention and the free market, why doesn't NASA the business take off? If it can make so many technological advances to benefit everyone, how can it not be a viable business on its own, or why can't some space company provide to us what NASA does, without the government and people paying for it?

[Strange_Love]

I very much enjoy listening to people discuss politics and putting in my two cents sometimes. My mom always worked in a place that was heavily into politics. (mostly city hall jobs) Since I can remember she would come home talking politics. That being said both my parents are Republicans. So as a product of them I am also.

This being said I will vote for Romney. Not because he is a Republican and not because I like everything he stands for either. I do not like Obama and what he does stand for. I think he has done little for this country. I did not say nothing let me be clear about that I just feel as if he has done very little.

[Ranior]

Originally Posted by Strange_Love

I very much enjoy listening to people discuss politics and putting in my two cents sometimes. My mom always worked in a place that was heavily into politics. (mostly city hall jobs) Since I can remember she would come home talking politics. That being said both my parents are Republicans. So as a product of them I am also.

This being said I will vote for Romney. Not because he is a Republican and not because I like everything he stands for either. I do not like Obama and what he does stand for. I think he has done little for this country. I did not say nothing let me be clear about that I just feel as if he has done very little.

Fair enough all around. I'm interested in promoting a discussion here that actually gets into things, instead of just broad statements (something I have been struggling with), but would you care to expand at all? What do you think are some of Obama's specific failures that you believe Romeny will better adress? Really just anything to expand would be cool.

Then again, perhaps I am mistaken, and this forum isn't going to be one that has the people who will get interested in this thread and let it take off. But I'll try for a while longer.

[Strange_Love]

One of the things I dislike that he did most was be misleading. He said our troops would be home from Iraq. And he got them home. But then turned around and off they all go to Afghanistan. I have friends that have been hurt in both wars. I realize that keeping them home is not always a option but don't get everyone excited that they will be brought home just to turn around and send them away again. Or if you are going to then tell us so.

As the debate just mentioned (no im not watching its on in another room) gas prices. $1.79 was the average when he was elected now the average is over $3.69 a gallon.

Unemployment is up. Jobs are hard to come by. Its the holiday season and for another year families are not going to be sure if they can give their kids what they want. But if you ask some the blame it all on Bush. Well that is fine and dandy but what did your boy do to fix it in his 4 years?

Commonly things get better in America or the economy improves when a Democrat is elected. The unemployment rates got to their highest while he was in office.


And as a nerd I hate that he closed down NASA.

[Dad_Scaper]

edit: not getting involved in this. some of you do not know what you think you know.

[Garenex]

I also am listening to the debate from another (while trying to choose an army for the TTO this weekend). I shall start by stating that I am politically Republican, and this shall be the second presidential election I'll be voting in. I voted for McCain in the last election, and often wonder what would have happened...(but then Aslan's voice pops in my head, telling me "No one is ever told what would have happened.")

My initial opinion about the debate, is that I'm frustrated with both of them. They continually interrupt each other and seem to waste a lot of time not saying anything.

They just brought up gun control, and this is something I beat to death in high school. My opinion is that people who want to get the assault weapons (which are already illegal), are going to get them regardless of whether they are illegal or not. The only people whom gun control laws are going to effect are those whom will follow the laws anyway, who aren't going to go on a shooting spree. Those people need the weapons to defend themselves from those who aren't going to follow the laws.

What I feel we need is more education and training. Young people just aren't widely trained in guns as many just do not have the opportunity. If more people learned how to handle and respect the weaponry from an early age, I feel there would be less violence.

Originally Posted by Nukatha

Furthermore, technological advancements from the space program are applicable in daily life (just think of all the things we can do with the hundreds of satellites orbiting earth now), and the research, development, and manufacturing of large launch vehicles gives thousands of people careers.

I find NASA to be a fascinating area of discussion, though one I have not touched a lot. I am all for for space exploration, but I have often wondering if it is really best for it to a government agency, or if it would be better to privatize it. My initial feeling is that it should be a private industry, as there's countless other things for the government to spend money on, then again, Nukatha's comment above has made me rethink my position. I also wonder how far away we are from lazer/rocket weaponry from space, and if we would really want that kind of fire power in the private sector.