Sir Heroscape's customs

[TREX]

Originally Posted by Sir Heroscape

@BiggaBullfrog (and any others interested in commenting)... here's a completely different angle on the Rujin design.

I do feel like a lot of the issues I was running into were Feral Troll comparisons and I'd prefer to create new design space in a Valhalla troll....and I think kind of like the Regen is a D&D troll staple ability, I think Valhalla trolls could have a Thick Skin ability. so I'm doing that alongside 2 Monster-savage type abilities 1) a Savage devouring figures he kills and 2) a territorial monster who does not appreciate people in his swamp.

Would love some thoughts.

If you leave the devour ability as is maybe put removing "up to 3 wounds". I like the different types of trolls having different perks and not all regenerating in the same way. I like the new direction. He becomes his own man and not shadowing the feral troll. I wouldnt be opposed to other trolls being like the feral one if they are dnd trolls that look like him. I actually have 3 other troll minis that are dnd type trolls that look similar.

I feel like the devour ability could totally work for a massive hydra or dragon figure. I may have to steal that ability for one of my massive gridless creatures.

[Sir Heroscape]

This may be a little pre-mature....but in the event Xundar and Co. make it through the SoV...I was able to find some more Shadow miniatures to expand the faction even more! So here are a few concept ideas I've put together for some more Shadows! Would love to hear some thoughts.


The idea here is a life-draining Wraith who consumes the figure in darkness. I really like the ability, and I also love the reuse of Through Shadow (though I may change the name to Shadow Phase or Dimension Shift or something) to create a unique playstyle where the Wraith can emerge into (or retreat) the fray and consume opponent's figures.

This hunter cat is really cool! I really like the anti-range component of this unit and it stalking it's prey as it hides in the Shadows of it's friendly shadows. The only thing I'm a little hesitant about is I do kind feel like it needs a multi special attack or some special ability to incorporate the tenticles it has. It's simple as is, but the mini is unique enough, I probably should tie in that aspect of it in the powers somehow. So would be interested for some thoughts there.

This is such a fun mini, and I really like the unique idea I've come up here with a "pre-set", somewhat stationary figure that basically attacks everything around it. It's basically a mushroom monster, so it makes sense it wouldn't really move, and range could pick it off, but it makes for some really cheap roadblockers as well as a pesky multiattacker if someone gets too close. They're also nice to be a way-point of sorts for some of the abilities and to help buff the other Shadows if the opponent doesn't bother killing them.

@TREX (I know you enjoyed my shadows, would be interested to see what you think) @BiggaBullfrog (if you have a minute )

Anyone else of course is welcome to chime in.

[TREX]

It seems like you have a good idea for what you want the new units to do, but I cant see them really hitting a sweet spot theme wise by looking at them. The miniatures look cool. The displacer beast is pretty great. I cant put my finger on it but they just seem to be missing something for me.

[Sir Heroscape]

Originally Posted by TREX

It seems like you have a good idea for what you want the new units to do, but I cant see them really hitting a sweet spot theme wise by looking at them. The miniatures look cool. The displacer beast is pretty great. I cant put my finger on it but they just seem to be missing something for me.

That's okay. I appreciate the honesty. I'm just trying to figure these guys out...so any ideas/inspiration you may have would be welcome as well. I'm not married to these designs (yet anyway )

[Scytale]

The Wraith is pretty neat, and a help to the faction in dealing with high-defense units. It fits with the general theme of the Shadows boosting each other as well. I don't really like the name "Consuming Dark" for the power name, though. Through Shadow feels overly complicated for what it does, like you're stretching too much for theme. It would be less complex and more unique to simply have something like:

Shadow Shift
Instead of moving normally, you may place this Shadow Wraith adjacent to any other Shadow you control.

I like the simplicity of the Shadow Stalker. It feels like Shadow Lurking will be just used to put Stalkers next to each other, which isn't all that interesting tactically. It's place in the faction feels a bit too close to the Hounds right now too.

The Shadow Fungi is just ... strange. I get the desire to make the mini into something useful, but it's hard to imagine creating a show mushroom instead of a huge hound, demon, tentacle, or whatever. It just doesn't feel right for the faction.

[Sir Heroscape]

Originally Posted by Scytale

The Wraith is pretty neat, and a help to the faction in dealing with high-defense units. It fits with the general theme of the Shadows boosting each other as well. I don't really like the name "Consuming Dark" for the power name, though. Through Shadow feels overly complicated for what it does, like you're stretching too much for theme. It would be less complex and more unique to simply have something like:

Hmm...I guess, consuming does create an image of devouring, when I'm envisioning more of a crippling or incapacitating dark that deals damage.
Maybe:
- Debilitating Dark
- Overwhelming Dark
- Incapacitating Dark
- Disabling Dark
I recognize 'Dark' isn't the great word to pair with, but I'd like to try and not have to have the word Shadow in every ability name...though I guess I could do that as a way to tie the faction together?

Thanks for the suggestion on Shadow Shift! I love it! Amazing what happens when a second pair of eyes get on a design. Thanks!

I like the simplicity of the Shadow Stalker. It feels like Shadow Lurking will be just used to put Stalkers next to each other, which isn't all that interesting tactically. It's place in the faction feels a bit too close to the Hounds right now too.

You make a good point. Maybe a clause that states "Shadow Stalking may not be used with other Shadow Stalkers"? Do you think that would do it? Personally, I really like the tactic and theme of setting them up to stalk ranged units.

With the mini in hand, I do think I'm missing something on this one since the tentacle appendages are so unique. I think I've gotta find a way to incorporate them. I'm considering something simple like a low-powered, multi-attack special or some sort of Grapple or Stun ability. Any ideas there?

The Shadow Fungi is just ... strange. I get the desire to make the mini into something useful, but it's hard to imagine creating a show mushroom instead of a huge hound, demon, tentacle, or whatever. It just doesn't feel right for the faction.

Hahah, I appreciate the honesty. I do see what you're saying...hence why I was going for cheap-filler-shadow unit here...but maybe it was a little forced? I don't know yet. I think I'd still like to try and make these guys work, but maybe the abilities are just not fitting all that well to portray a compelling design...though it more sounds like you're saying that in general Xundar wouldn't waste his time with a mushroom when he can just use/make a hound...which is a valid point.

[Sir Heroscape]

Here's a new take on the Wraith and Stalker...thoughts?

[TREX]

Forced. That was the word that I was looking for. I know any of us that have made enough customs with a variety of awesome minis has done it. Just so all the figures get a card. I guess what makes figures exciting to me is when they do something fun, something different, make the square peg fit in the round hole, all while being outside of the box. More or less, not so samey. Xundar is a freaking magic casting drow sorcerer. Hes going to cast different apparitions to do different things. What Im seeing in a nutshell is, gang up on a figure with shadows get attack boost or reduce defense. It could be so much better. Have them screw with or rearrange order markers, help reroll a bad die, temporarily posess a common enemy to attack his buddy, have them do something fun and magical. I dont play as much Heroscape anymore but what excited me as a designer of characters was when they got to bring some new fun twist to the game. This post isnt to bring your designs down but to just help with outside the box thinking. Ive played a bunch of other games that have a bunch of amazing game mechanics. Most of which can be borrowed for fun and interesting abilities for characters in this game. Hope this helps. I do like the shadow faction you have made and if you bring more of them into it make them an interesting addition that allow for Xundar to do different things with them. The banshees or wraiths could even have an attack of zero and rely heavily on a possess an enemy, get to attack with it for a turn instead of them attacking. With this game possibilities for customs are endless.

The mushroom could even become interesting. If it does something different. Its not going to kill something as good as a hound but may make a nearby enemy hallucinate and do something crazy.

[Sir Heroscape]

I took those good points to heart @TREX and really spent some time thinking about how to make these additional Shadow figures special. I realized that the stalker and wraith were basically the same in that they were offensively-minded and I needed to make things a little more unique and/or variable.

So I've spent a ton of time thinking about the below new designs and even playtested them a handful of times. For the time being, I'm shelving the mushroom, but I really like how the Stalker ended up (feeling much more like a stalker in confusing it's opponent's with it's positioning and then grappling them when he gets to them) and how the Wraith ended up, pulling my inspiration from Dementors and how they just show up out of nowhere and bring darkness with them; giving itself and other Dementor's strength.

[Scytale]

I like the Wraith. It fulfills a new role in the faction. I think Attack needs to be 3, though, to make it worth using. In general I think I'd rather make an attack than bringing up a defense booster. With Attack 3 I wouldn't feel bad bringing it up.

For the Stalker, I love Grapple. I think Displacement is overcooked. Overly fancy for what you want, which is a defensive power. And it comes with potential rules problems, such as choosing the figure that is doing the attacking, and weirdness such as swapping with a unit on top of a wall, or on the other side of it. And it's crazy-powerful to boot, making the opponent not only fail to attack you but attack themselves. It also plays against the unit's own role as a defender, moving away from the figures it's grappling. Just a chance to avoid all wounds is all you need, and more than interesting enough for a low-defense unit. I'm also not a fan of the relatively high Attack, which makes this unit just plain better than most of the others. I suggest focusing the design more on what it does and what it brings to the faction, and I would like to see it feel like it fits better with the others. Something like:

Shifting Shadow
If this Shadow Stalker is attacked and at least 1 skull is rolled, roll the 20-sided die and add 1 for each adjacent Shadow you contol. If you roll 1-10, roll defense dice normally. If you roll an 11 or higher, ignore all damage that would be inflicted by that attack.

[Sir Heroscape]

Originally Posted by Scytale

I like the Wraith. It fulfills a new role in the faction. I think Attack needs to be 3, though, to make it worth using. In general I think I'd rather make an attack than bringing up a defense booster. With Attack 3 I wouldn't feel bad bringing it up.

For the Stalker, I love Grapple. I think Displacement is overcooked. Overly fancy for what you want, which is a defensive power. And it comes with potential rules problems, such as choosing the figure that is doing the attacking, and weirdness such as swapping with a unit on top of a wall, or on the other side of it. And it's crazy-powerful to boot, making the opponent not only fail to attack you but attack themselves. It also plays against the unit's own role as a defender, moving away from the figures it's grappling. Just a chance to avoid all wounds is all you need, and more than interesting enough for a low-defense unit. I'm also not a fan of the relatively high Attack, which makes this unit just plain better than most of the others. I suggest focusing the design more on what it does and what it brings to the faction, and I would like to see it feel like it fits better with the others. Something like:

Wow, when you say it like that, it all makes sense haha.

I agree about the wraith, I usually used them early to get into position as a way-point, but getting the attackers in position was the sacrifice. I think Att 3 is warranted. I’ve also considered a “passive” phase movement ability to get them into position without sacrificing the turn with the “attackers”. What are your thoughts on that?

Yeah, I’m glad you said something about the Stalker. I did feel like it was overly complex but I couldn’t quite place what I wanted/needed in order to clean it up AND still keep the theme I was looking for. Your suggestion is on-point and I quite love it. It accomplishes the theme I was going for all the while maintaining simplicity and still making the unit unique and fun.

[Scytale]

Originally Posted by Sir Heroscape

I agree about the wraith, I usually used them early to get into position as a way-point, but getting the attackers in position was the sacrifice. I think Att 3 is warranted. I’ve also considered a “passive” phase movement ability to get them into position without sacrificing the turn with the “attackers”. What are your thoughts on that?

Don't complicate the faction. A passive move power would do exactly that. Make them at least somewhat worthwhile to activate, and they fit neatly into the faction.