Public Design Workshop

[Tornado]

All I can offer is my opinion and advice.
A third version of Batman(Bruce Wayne not counting the other Batmen)mostly for Justice League synergy sounds horrible to me. I think BatmanII has all the potential needed.
Boom Tube Cyborg is never going to fly unless it is watered down to a point where it makes no sense to restrict it to the JL.

[Yodaking]

If someone wants to LD one or more new utility glyphs that they think will make Batman II form the JL and then have that JL work together as a more effective team, I'd be happy to play test them when it gets that far. I think you will still at least need new MM & Cyborg cards though if you ever want to play a competitive JL army featuring either one. Our current Cyborg reflects his Teen Titans version rather then his JL version. He is pretty good when you surround him with more Titans and take full advantage of all the good synergy that exists for that faction, but that doesn't make him a great JL teammate. MM has a good card too for building pod armies and moving up support units. His free movement power is wasted on all this super fast JL allies though as they don't need the extra move and none of them are cheerleaders.

[Arkham]

Originally Posted by Yodaking

If someone wants to LD one or more new utility glyphs that they think will make Batman II form the JL and then have that JL work together as a more effective team, I'd be happy to play test them when it gets that far. I think you will still at least need new MM & Cyborg cards though if you ever want to play a competitive JL army featuring either one. Our current Cyborg reflects his Teen Titans version rather then his JL version. He is pretty good when you surround him with more Titans and take full advantage of all the good synergy that exists for that faction, but that doesn't make him a great JL teammate. MM has a good card too for building pod armies and moving up support units. His free movement power is wasted on all this super fast JL allies though as they don't need the extra move and none of them are cheerleaders.

If we want to turn Bats II into a JLA via new Utility Glyphs, thinking up at least 2 would probably help. I think Tornado is onto something, but I think you should essentially give him what you wanted for his card, but in glyph form.

1 Utility Glyph that gives him markers for his synergy benefits with the Order Markers as you wanted, and another that reflects his detective skills. I'm on board either way, I just want to see it actually make it. I've been very vocal for a long time on how we need more Utility Glyphs, or a new Batman(your JLA version has been what I imagined), in order to make Batman more useful outside of just a Vigilante/Sidekick led synergy. His current gadgets aren't up to snuff in any JLA build.

Currently, he has 2 quite useful ones in just about any game: Shurikens and Smoke Pellet. If he got one that allows the synergy, and another that plays up the detective nature, we're getting somewhere.

As for Martian Manhunter, he's honestly one of the most underwhelming designs, compared to all his powers available to him. He is a great addition to a lot of armies, especially telepaths, but on his own merit, and as a JLA support, as you've covered, it just doesn't fit. So I'd love to make a MM II for that reason alone.

[Arkham]

Alright, here's the revised version of Martian Manhunter II:

NAME = MARTIAN MANHUNTER
SECRET IDENTITY = J'ONN J'ONZZ

SPECIES = MARTIAN
UNIQUENESS = UNIQUE HERO
CLASS = TELEPATH
PERSONALITY = BENEVOLENT

SIZE/HEIGHT = MEDIUM 5

LIFE = 7

MOVE = 8
RANGE = 3
ATTACK = 7
DEFENSE = 7

POINTS = 350-380

JLA INITIATIVE
At the start of the game, you may choose up to 3 other friendly Unique Heroes and place a JLA marker on each of their cards. Before rolling for initiative, you may add 1 to your roll for each friendly figure with a JLA marker on its card.

PHASING SHAPESHIFTER
After an Order Marker is revealed, Martian Manhunter may change his size to Tiny, Small, Medium, Large, or Huge. Martian Manhunter may move through all figures and objects, will not take any leaving engagement attacks, and cannot be targeted by opponents' non-adjacent figures for any attacks or for any opponents' special powers that require clear sight. After moving with Martian Manhunter, you may roll one unblockable attack die against one figure Martian Manhunter passed through this turn.

ADEPT TELEPATHY
An opponent may never take control of Martian Manhunter or any firendly figure that is adjacent to Martian Manhunter. When Martian Manhunter is in play, all friendly figures are considered within clear sight of each other.

INVULNERABLE
Any time Martian Manhunter would be destroyed, he instead receives 1 wound.

SUPER STRENGTH
FLYING

--------------------------------
If the JLA markers are taken out, I'll just throw the 1st power with the Telepathy, or at least take the markers out of the equation. Regardless, I feel this version gives him a lot to play with, both individually, and in a JLA themed army.

What he has to offer:

Offense:
-Ability to change size allows him to attack specific figures
-1 unblockable on someone he moves through

Movement:
-Ability to change size allows him to get around Blob/Doc/Mr. F etc.
-No leaving engagements

Defense:
-Ability to change size prevents specific specials
-Can't be targeted non-adjacently
-Can't be taken control of
-Can't be auto destroyed

Support:
-Initiative boost +3(up to +6 if the other markers come to fruition)
-All friendly figures have clear sight on each other
-Adjacent figures can't be taken control of

[bsbush7690]

NAME = CYBORG 2.0
SECRET IDENTITY = VIC STONE

SPECIES = CYBORG
UNIQUENESS = UNIQUE HERO
CLASS = STRATEGIST
PERSONALITY = BRILLIANT

SIZE/HEIGHT = MEDIUM 5

LIFE = 5
MOVE = 5
RANGE = 4
ATTACK = 5
DEFENSE = 5

POINTS = 250?

COORDINATED ATTACK
After revealing an Order Marker on this card and taking a turn with Cyborg, if Cyborg did not move this turn you may take a turn with any figure you control with a JLA Marker within clear sight of Cyborg in which the figure may only attack.

BOOM TUBE TRANSPORT
Instead of moving and attacking normally with Cyborg, you may choose to use Boom Tube Transport. Before Transporting, you may choose an adjacent tiny, small, medium, or large figure. Place Cyborg on any empty space within 8 clear sight spaces of his previous position. After placing Cyborg, you may place the chosen figure on any empty space adjacent to Cyborg. Figures moved with this special power will not take any leaving engagement attacks. This special may not be used more than once per round.

CYBERNETIC REPAIR X
At the end of the round, if you reveal an "X" Order Marker on this card, remove one Wound Marker from each Army Card you control with the Cybernetic Repair X special power.

SUPER STRENGTH

[TrollBrute]

Originally Posted by Aggressive Sock

NAME = MARTIAN MANHUNTER
SECRET IDENTITY = J'ONN J'ONZZ

SPECIES = MARTIAN
UNIQUENESS = UNIQUE HERO
CLASS = TELEPATH
PERSONALITY = BENEVOLENT

SIZE/HEIGHT = MEDIUM 5

LIFE = 7

MOVE = 8
RANGE = 3
ATTACK = 7
DEFENSE = 7

POINTS = 350-380

JLA INITIATIVE
At the start of the game, you may choose up to 3 other friendly Unique Heroes and place a JLA marker on each of their cards. Before rolling for initiative, you may add 1 to your roll for each friendly figure with a JLA marker on its card.

PHASING SHAPESHIFTER
After an Order Marker is revealed, Martian Manhunter may change his size to Tiny, Small, Medium, Large, or Huge. Martian Manhunter may move through all figures and objects, will not take any leaving engagement attacks, and cannot be targeted by opponents' non-adjacent figures for any attacks or for any opponents' special powers that require clear sight. After moving with Martian Manhunter, you may roll one unblockable attack die against one figure Martian Manhunter passed through this turn.

ADEPT TELEPATHY
An opponent may never take control of Martian Manhunter or any firendly figure that is adjacent to Martian Manhunter. When Martian Manhunter is in play, all friendly figures are considered within clear sight of each other.

INVULNERABLE
Any time Martian Manhunter would be destroyed, he instead receives 1 wound.

SUPER STRENGTH
FLYING

This is a solid start, but I will say now that four powers is not a line we like to cross very often. Martian Manhunter is definitely a character that could get that treatment, but it's going to be a tough sell when one of those four powers feels like 3-4 combined and another is two combined. Throw in SS and Flying and you're looking at a card with 9-10 powers.

Also, Invulnerable seems like a weird fit to me, given that guys like Superman and Thor don't have anything like that. Even Hercules (a literal god), has a weaker version. Dropping that power would really help to simplify.

[Karat]

Originally Posted by TrollBrute

This is a solid start, but I will say now that four powers is not a line we like to cross very often. Martian Manhunter is definitely a character that could get that treatment, but it's going to be a tough sell when one of those four powers feels like 3-4 combined and another is two combined. Throw in SS and Flying and you're looking at a card with 9-10 powers.

Also, Invulnerable seems like a weird fit to me, given that guys like Superman and Thor don't have anything like that. Even Hercules (a literal god), has a weaker version. Dropping that power would really help to simplify.

Yea, I'd drop Invulnerable and bump his defense or life 1 to compensate.

[Arkham]

Alright, taking Invulnerable out, raising his life by 1, and splitting Phasing Shapeshifter into 2 for simplicity, results in:

NAME = MARTIAN MANHUNTER
SECRET IDENTITY = J'ONN J'ONZZ

SPECIES = MARTIAN
UNIQUENESS = UNIQUE HERO
CLASS = TELEPATH
PERSONALITY = BENEVOLENT

SIZE/HEIGHT = MEDIUM 5

LIFE = 8

MOVE = 8
RANGE = 3
ATTACK = 7
DEFENSE = 7

POINTS = 350-380

JLA INITIATIVE
At the start of the game, you may choose up to 3 other friendly Unique Heroes and place a JLA marker on each of their cards. Before rolling for initiative, you may add 1 to your roll for each friendly figure with a JLA marker on its card.

PHASING
Martian Manhunter may move through all figures, will not take any leaving engagement attacks, and cannot be targeted by opponents' non-adjacent figures for any attacks or for any opponents' special powers that require clear sight. After moving with Martian Manhunter, you may roll one unblockable attack die against one figure Martian Manhunter passed through this turn.

SHAPESHIFTER
After an Order Marker is revealed, Martian Manhunter may change his size to Tiny, Small, Medium, Large, or Huge.

ADEPT TELEPATHY
When Martian Manhunter is in play, all friendly figures are considered within clear sight of each other. An opponent may never take control of Martian Manhunter or any friendly figure adjacent to Martian Manhunter.

SUPER STRENGTH
FLYING

[Smithy Winfred]

Originally Posted by Tornado

I think you could use Communicator Glyphs in the same way as you are proposing JL markers and with your MMII design I think you have a lot going.
WWII is going to happen so if you build some additional soft synergy there you can do most of what you want to accomplish with two second versions instead of I believe five.
More synergy can be built into future designs on their first version.
I think you may have a chance to get that accepted by most.

I'm actually liking the idea of a Justice League communicator, but I would much rather prefer a long list of synergy options to another marker reliant faction, especially if you are trying to avoid similarities with the Avengers.

[Arkham]

Originally Posted by bsbush7690

[B]NAME = CYBORG 2.0
SECRET IDENTITY = VIC STONE

COORDINATED ATTACK
After revealing an Order Marker on this card and taking a turn with Cyborg, if Cyborg did not move this turn you may take a turn with any figure you control with a JLA Marker within clear sight of Cyborg in which the figure may only attack.

BOOM TUBE TRANSPORT
Instead of moving and attacking normally with Cyborg, you may choose to use Boom Tube Transport. Before Transporting, you may choose an adjacent tiny, small, medium, or large figure. Place Cyborg on any empty space within 8 clear sight spaces of his previous position. After placing Cyborg, you may place the chosen figure on any empty space adjacent to Cyborg. Figures moved with this special power will not take any leaving engagement attacks. This special may not be used more than once per round.

CYBERNETIC REPAIR X
At the end of the round, if you reveal an "X" Order Marker on this card, remove one Wound Marker from each Army Card you control with the Cybernetic Repair X special power.

SUPER STRENGTH

Looks good, and the teleport should definitely pass after being toned down even a bit further. Nice job. One thing to add though, would be giving him 1 marker to start with, and perhaps limiting the number of spaces the figure must be within(since Martian Manhunter will grant clear sight, the entire map may prove to be too good):

COORDINATED ATTACK
At the start of the game, place 1 JLA marker on the card of a friendly Unique Hero's card. After revealing an Order Marker on this card and taking a turn with Cyborg, if Cyborg did not move this turn you may take a turn with any figure you control with a JLA Marker within 6 clear sight spaces of Cyborg in which the figure may only attack.

[Tornado]

MMII is looking easily over 400.
With that version of Cyborg, you do not need BatmanIII or new Utility Glyphs.
I think you have all you need with those two designs.

[Arkham]

Originally Posted by Tornado

MMII is looking easily over 400.
With that version of Cyborg, you do not need BatmanIII or new Utility Glyphs.
I think you have all you need with those two designs.

We do want someone offering Order Marker flexibility, as that's the last JLA themed synergy I'd like to see represented. So I still see a definite benefit and need for a Batman Utility Glyph adding to the options.

Martian Manhunter's power level warrants as high as it needs to go, as long as it falls at least 30-40 less than Superman. He's always painted as someone who can hang with Superman in just about every way, just barely being outdone, but with his own tricks and abilities to offer. So if he ends up that good, he ends up that good. I don't want a Martian Manhunter that feels stunted just for the sake of being stunted.

Personally, there's nothing on his card as is that seems 400+. 370-390 seems likely. All of his specials are things you'll find on lower costing units, brought together. His stats, while good, are on par with a 360-380 character. Most characters with higher cost than that, are packing a bigger offensive special punch, or something defensive that makes them much harder to kill.