Heroscapers
Go Back   Heroscapers > Custom HeroScape Creations > Other Customization & HS Additions
Other Customization & HS Additions Everything from new ways to play to modded figures


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old August 14th, 2010, 03:54 PM
dok's Avatar
dok dok is offline
GenCon Main Event Champion - 2010, 2011, & 2017
 
Join Date: October 9, 2008
Location: USA - CO - Denver
Posts: 23,044
Images: 110
Blog Entries: 17
dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth
Pooled Draft format

I've been toying with the pooled draft concept for a tournament. This approach seems like, by far, the most natural way to reduce the tendency to bring power builds. Rather than tweak point levels, or impose army restrictions, you simply play the game as it's played in basements all over the country: with everyone putting their figures in a pile and each person taking turns grabbing figures out of the pile. There's a lot less incentive to bring Q9 when it could easily be your opponent who plays him!

However, I'd still like to see draft rules configured in a way that allows nice thematic armies to be drafted when they are available. So, I've tweaked the typical rules to this end and shoehorned the concept into a tournament setting. Here is my proposed format:
  • Each player brings a draft pool of between 600 and 1000 points, with a minimum of 5 different cards. A draft pool must contain at least two cards of any included common squad.

  • When players are matched up to play, they begin by dicing off d20s. The winner of the roll has two options:
    1. choose a side of the map
    2. choose whether to pick first or second in the draft
    The loser of the roll gets the other one of the two choices.

  • The player who picks first takes one selection turn; after that the players alternate taking two selection turns.

  • On a selection turn, a players drafts one card from either drafting pool, with two exceptions:
    1. If a player selects a common card and there are multiples of that common card in the pool, the player may immediately draft additional cards of that common, up to as many as point total and availability allow.
    2. If a player has drafted more total points than their opponent when it is their turn, they may pass on that selection turn.
    Whenever a player drafts a card, they must immediately place the figures from that card in their start zone (with the exception of figures that do not begin the game on the battlefield).

  • The draft continues until both players either have no options they can draft within the point total or decline to draft further, at which point the game is played with the drafted armies.

  • At the conclusion of the game, each player recollects their original drafting pool.
Thoughts?

Last edited by dok; August 15th, 2010 at 06:48 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old August 14th, 2010, 04:03 PM
ollie's Avatar
ollie ollie is offline
Is a Quadradical
 
Join Date: March 19, 2007
Location: VT
Posts: 9,538
Images: 43
Blog Entries: 22
ollie is a man of the cloth ollie is a man of the cloth ollie is a man of the cloth ollie is a man of the cloth ollie is a man of the cloth ollie is a man of the cloth ollie is a man of the cloth ollie is a man of the cloth ollie is a man of the cloth ollie is a man of the cloth ollie is a man of the cloth ollie is a man of the cloth ollie is a man of the cloth ollie is a man of the cloth ollie is a man of the cloth
Re: Pooled Draft format

Nice.

I haven't done a formal draft for a long time, but we used a houserule that sits somewhere between your common-squad-enabler and the official rules: when Player A drafts a common squad unit, Player B cannot draft a squad of that unit until Player A has drafted a different unit.

Stacking up on commons, when the possibility exists, is probably a strong strategy and the version we used lets the other player get their choice of other units while this is happening.

Have you done any timing tests? This might be interesting information for those undeveloped backwaters that don't use a rolling rumble.

Edit. Reading this clause more closely...
Quote:
Originally Posted by dok
If a player selects a common card and there are multiples of that common card in the pool, the player may immediately draft as many of that card as point total and availability allow.
...makes it sound like you have the choice of drafting just one or as many as possible. For example, if there are four squads of Stingers in the pool and you draft first you can take one squad or four squads, but not two or three. I originally thought you meant that you could take any number of squads, and I think that is preferable. Which is it?

Last edited by ollie; August 14th, 2010 at 04:25 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old August 14th, 2010, 04:29 PM
killercactus's Avatar
killercactus killercactus is offline
The Guy That Thinks Runa is Good (and has actually won games with her)
 
Join Date: February 19, 2007
Location: OH - Austintown
Posts: 7,865
Images: 32
Blog Entries: 10
killercactus is hot lava death! killercactus is hot lava death! killercactus is hot lava death! killercactus is hot lava death! killercactus is hot lava death! killercactus is hot lava death! killercactus is hot lava death! killercactus is hot lava death! killercactus is hot lava death! killercactus is hot lava death! killercactus is hot lava death! killercactus is hot lava death! killercactus is hot lava death!
Re: Pooled Draft format

That's pretty much exactly how we draft at our house. If I draft the 4th Mass, I can immediately draft anywhere 1 to 5 squads of them (and only because 5 is all I own - I can draft as many as points will allow), and it works fine.

ollie, I like your take on this too, but I think dok's saves time which is great when you're drafting. I've had this concept on the back burner for a tournament for a while now. Hopefully one day I'll actually do it.

Like battle reports? Click Tourney Reports (New 10/21/2012 - Cutters / Brutes!)
KC's Maps
Click KC's Customs
Scaper of the Week #57
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old August 14th, 2010, 05:06 PM
dok's Avatar
dok dok is offline
GenCon Main Event Champion - 2010, 2011, & 2017
 
Join Date: October 9, 2008
Location: USA - CO - Denver
Posts: 23,044
Images: 110
Blog Entries: 17
dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth
Re: Pooled Draft format

I meant you could draft 1, 2, 3, or 4 squads at that time. I'll edit for clarity.

The other big difference from a typical draft is the ability to pass if you've drafted more points.

From a tournament perspective, I like having the huge point range that you're allowed to bring. There's really no reason to force people into a narrow point total.

Last edited by dok; August 14th, 2010 at 05:13 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old August 14th, 2010, 05:47 PM
Filthy the Clown's Avatar
Filthy the Clown Filthy the Clown is offline
Online HS Season 1 Champion & 'scape's foremost 'scapegoat
 
Join Date: January 11, 2010
Location: Country - FL - Pensacola
Posts: 2,521
Images: 270
Blog Entries: 12
Filthy the Clown is a penguin with a machine gun Filthy the Clown is a penguin with a machine gun Filthy the Clown is a penguin with a machine gun Filthy the Clown is a penguin with a machine gun Filthy the Clown is a penguin with a machine gun Filthy the Clown is a penguin with a machine gun Filthy the Clown is a penguin with a machine gun Filthy the Clown is a penguin with a machine gun Filthy the Clown is a penguin with a machine gun Filthy the Clown is a penguin with a machine gun Filthy the Clown is a penguin with a machine gun
Re: Pooled Draft format

Quote:
Originally Posted by dok View Post
Whenever a player drafts a card, they must immediately place that card in their start zone (with the exception of figures that do not begin the game on the battlefield).
This might seem minute, but can players change the position on the start zone, or, once they place the card on the start zone, that card's figure/squad must start the game on that space(s)?
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old August 14th, 2010, 10:12 PM
dok's Avatar
dok dok is offline
GenCon Main Event Champion - 2010, 2011, & 2017
 
Join Date: October 9, 2008
Location: USA - CO - Denver
Posts: 23,044
Images: 110
Blog Entries: 17
dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth
Re: Pooled Draft format

Quote:
Originally Posted by Filthy the Clown View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by dok View Post
Whenever a player drafts a card, they must immediately place that card in their start zone (with the exception of figures that do not begin the game on the battlefield).
This might seem minute, but can players change the position on the start zone, or, once they place the card on the start zone, that card's figure/squad must start the game on that space(s)?
The intention was that you have to place them and that's where they stay. Just one more bit of strategy you have to consider in drafting.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old August 15th, 2010, 12:53 AM
aquamaniac27's Avatar
aquamaniac27 aquamaniac27 is offline
 
Join Date: November 9, 2007
Location: USA - PA - Landisville [Lancaster]
Posts: 594
Images: 23
Blog Entries: 14
aquamaniac27 rolls all skulls baby! aquamaniac27 rolls all skulls baby! aquamaniac27 rolls all skulls baby! aquamaniac27 rolls all skulls baby!
Re: Pooled Draft format

Quote:
Originally Posted by dok View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Filthy the Clown View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by dok View Post
Whenever a player drafts a card, they must immediately place that card in their start zone (with the exception of figures that do not begin the game on the battlefield).
This might seem minute, but can players change the position on the start zone, or, once they place the card on the start zone, that card's figure/squad must start the game on that space(s)?
The intention was that you have to place them and that's where they stay. Just one more bit of strategy you have to consider in drafting.
Sounds like a blast! I'll have to try this tomorrow!
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old August 15th, 2010, 02:40 PM
ollie's Avatar
ollie ollie is offline
Is a Quadradical
 
Join Date: March 19, 2007
Location: VT
Posts: 9,538
Images: 43
Blog Entries: 22
ollie is a man of the cloth ollie is a man of the cloth ollie is a man of the cloth ollie is a man of the cloth ollie is a man of the cloth ollie is a man of the cloth ollie is a man of the cloth ollie is a man of the cloth ollie is a man of the cloth ollie is a man of the cloth ollie is a man of the cloth ollie is a man of the cloth ollie is a man of the cloth ollie is a man of the cloth ollie is a man of the cloth
Re: Pooled Draft format

Quote:
Originally Posted by dok View Post
I meant you could draft 1, 2, 3, or 4 squads at that time. I'll edit for clarity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dok View Post
The other big difference from a typical draft is the ability to pass if you've drafted more points.
Another difference as it is written is that the player going second does not get two picks. Is this intentional? Given that most maps are essentially symmetrical I'm not sure the ability to choose the side of the map is much compensation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dok
From a tournament perspective, I like having the huge point range that you're allowed to bring. There's really no reason to force people into a narrow point total.
Yes, this is cool, though I (and most people?) would probably push the upper limit just to get more units potentially in play through the day.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old August 15th, 2010, 02:55 PM
dok's Avatar
dok dok is offline
GenCon Main Event Champion - 2010, 2011, & 2017
 
Join Date: October 9, 2008
Location: USA - CO - Denver
Posts: 23,044
Images: 110
Blog Entries: 17
dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth
Re: Pooled Draft format

Quote:
Originally Posted by ollie View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by dok View Post
The other big difference from a typical draft is the ability to pass if you've drafted more points.
Another difference as it is written is that the player going second does not get two picks. Is this intentional? Given that most maps are essentially symmetrical I'm not sure the ability to choose the side of the map is much compensation.
I've never really liked that rule as written. If you're going to give player 2 two picks back-to-back, why not just make the whole draft a "snake" draft? That is, player 1 picks 1 card, then you alternate taking two cards for the rest of the draft.

I'm open to that approach, but I like the give and take aspect, and I worry that allowing someone to grab their hero of choice and a stack of commons on the first turn could lead to some formulaic builds taking over.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ollie View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by dok View Post
From a tournament perspective, I like having the huge point range that you're allowed to bring. There's really no reason to force people into a narrow point total.
Yes, this is cool, though I (and most people?) would probably push the upper limit just to get more units potentially in play through the day.
That's probably true, and it's fine, of course. But for someone with a smaller collection, there's no need to force them to bring 1000 points.

It would also be interesting to see if anyone goes for the "starve the beast" strategy, and comes with Hatamoto Taro, DW7k, Acolarh, a Marro Hive, and a squad of Obsidian Guards, and just drafts out of the opponent's bin. A game between two players who picked that approach would be pretty funny.

I think I'll put in a 2x common squad rule, just to make it a bit harder to make a "total suck" drafting pool.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old August 15th, 2010, 03:07 PM
ollie's Avatar
ollie ollie is offline
Is a Quadradical
 
Join Date: March 19, 2007
Location: VT
Posts: 9,538
Images: 43
Blog Entries: 22
ollie is a man of the cloth ollie is a man of the cloth ollie is a man of the cloth ollie is a man of the cloth ollie is a man of the cloth ollie is a man of the cloth ollie is a man of the cloth ollie is a man of the cloth ollie is a man of the cloth ollie is a man of the cloth ollie is a man of the cloth ollie is a man of the cloth ollie is a man of the cloth ollie is a man of the cloth ollie is a man of the cloth
Re: Pooled Draft format

Quote:
Originally Posted by dok View Post
If you're going to give player 2 two picks back-to-back, why not just make the whole draft a "snake" draft? That is, player 1 picks 1 card, then you alternate taking two cards for the rest of the draft.
I always thought it was a snake draft and that was how we played. I didn't find out otherwise until after we stopped drafting to make armies. If I were to run an event like this (and I might be running one later this year and if I do then a format like this is very tempting) I'd probably say it was a snake draft unless the people attending overwhelmingly wanted otherwise.

I suppose you could also offer other compensation---choice of first round initiative or not say---to the player that drafts second, but I don't think I like mixing the game and the draft like that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dok
It would also be interesting to see if anyone goes for the "starve the beast" strategy, and comes with Hatamoto Taro, DW7k, Acolarh, a Marro Hive, and a squad of Obsidian Guards, and just drafts out of the opponent's bin. A game between two players who picked that approach would be pretty funny.

I think I'll put in a 2x common squad rule, just to make it a bit harder to make a "total suck" drafting pool.
I think I'd sort-of do this. My initial thought in choosing a draft pool is that the units to pick are ones that you are relatively good at playing, regardless of strength. So, if you think you can squeeze more out of Sudema than others typically can then she's a good pick for your pool; it doesn't matter if you can squeeze more out of Q9 than Sudema without playing him especially well.

Edit. Second thought: take units that you are good at playing against compared to their reputation. If you think Zelrig, say, is overrated then put him in your pool and hope your opponent goes for him.

Last edited by ollie; August 15th, 2010 at 03:17 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old August 15th, 2010, 03:15 PM
dok's Avatar
dok dok is offline
GenCon Main Event Champion - 2010, 2011, & 2017
 
Join Date: October 9, 2008
Location: USA - CO - Denver
Posts: 23,044
Images: 110
Blog Entries: 17
dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth
Re: Pooled Draft format

Quote:
Originally Posted by ollie View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by dok View Post
If you're going to give player 2 two picks back-to-back, why not just make the whole draft a "snake" draft? That is, player 1 picks 1 card, then you alternate taking two cards for the rest of the draft.
I always thought it was a snake draft and that was how we played. I didn't find out otherwise until after we stopped drafting to make armies. If I were to run an event like this (and I might be running one later this year and if I do then a format like this is very tempting) I'd probably say it was a snake draft unless the people attending overwhelmingly wanted otherwise.

I suppose you could also offer other compensation---choice of first round initiative or not say---to the player that drafts second, but I don't think I like mixing the game and the draft like that.
I agree; I thought about the same thing but decided that the post-placement game should be plain vanilla Heroscape.

I need to think about it a bit more, but I think I agree with you about the snaked draft.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ollie View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by dok View Post
It would also be interesting to see if anyone goes for the "starve the beast" strategy, and comes with Hatamoto Taro, DW7k, Acolarh, a Marro Hive, and a squad of Obsidian Guards, and just drafts out of the opponent's bin. A game between two players who picked that approach would be pretty funny.

I think I'll put in a 2x common squad rule, just to make it a bit harder to make a "total suck" drafting pool.
I think I'd sort-of do this. My initial thought in choosing a draft pool is that the units to pick are ones that you are relatively good at playing, regardless of strength. So, if you think you can squeeze more out of Sudema than others typically can then she's a good pick for your pool; it doesn't matter if you can squeeze more out of Q9 than Sudema without playing him especially well.
Yep. My first instinct in a pooled draft format would be to grab TKN+grubs and zombies, and then try to pick some lower-tier things I'm comfortable playing alongside those figures. I'd try to steer clear of stingers or other relatively straightforward figures.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old August 15th, 2010, 03:34 PM
killercactus's Avatar
killercactus killercactus is offline
The Guy That Thinks Runa is Good (and has actually won games with her)
 
Join Date: February 19, 2007
Location: OH - Austintown
Posts: 7,865
Images: 32
Blog Entries: 10
killercactus is hot lava death! killercactus is hot lava death! killercactus is hot lava death! killercactus is hot lava death! killercactus is hot lava death! killercactus is hot lava death! killercactus is hot lava death! killercactus is hot lava death! killercactus is hot lava death! killercactus is hot lava death! killercactus is hot lava death! killercactus is hot lava death! killercactus is hot lava death!
Re: Pooled Draft format

Yeah - my pool looks something like this:

Runa - 120
Minions x2 - 340
Venoc Warlord - 460
Venoc Vipers x4 - 640
Fyorlag Spiders x4 - 800
Wyvern - 900
Estivara - 980
Marcu - 1000

Like battle reports? Click Tourney Reports (New 10/21/2012 - Cutters / Brutes!)
KC's Maps
Click KC's Customs
Scaper of the Week #57

Last edited by killercactus; August 15th, 2010 at 03:34 PM. Reason: or Wyvern x2 instead of Estivara + Marcu
Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Heroscapers > Custom HeroScape Creations > Other Customization & HS Additions
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Draft Tourney..... nearly as good as draft beer. Alastair MacDirk Competitive Armies Discussion 16 August 26th, 2008 11:01 AM
Fantasy Heroscape Draft (Registration and Draft Closed) gamjuven Contests and Forum Games 68 November 23rd, 2007 09:09 PM
Marvel Draft - Jandar and the Guaranteed Draft Pick Zorgophlats Marvel Discussion 19 July 24th, 2007 12:27 PM
Draft/Counter Draft Spectre007 Heroscape Strategy Articles 13 April 17th, 2007 01:18 AM
Draft tourny this weekend, name your fav top 5 draft list monte_kev HeroScape General Discussion 16 January 7th, 2007 04:00 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:58 PM.

Heroscape background footer

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2021 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.