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  #241  
Old August 25th, 2021, 06:35 PM
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Re: Wargrounds of Scape (WoS) - discussion thread

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Originally Posted by OEAO View Post
Welcome aboard Dignan and 1Mmirg!! It’s great to have you two as judges!
Great news! Great map cast on the panel. Should be good.

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  #242  
Old August 25th, 2021, 06:42 PM
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Re: Wargrounds of Scape (WoS) - discussion thread

Can't See the Jungle: Man, I really like this map. I'll probably keep this up for casual games for a while...

But I don't think it's a good fit for the WoS. I could never include this in a ScapeCon (or GenCon) map pool because of how drastically it changes gameplay. I highly recommend using this at a local tourney, but do understand that it does impact the games in a unique way (and a positive one at that!). I don't love range vs melee "kite around the water/lava" endgames (see my Fire Isles review), I think armies that rely on auras/adjacency boosts struggle (see: Heavies), and I think many of the traditionally strongest armies (read: Q9, Knights, and WTF squads) get even better on this map (when compared to armies that are just a touch below, such as Heavies and Romans).

All in all, I really like this map, but "map roulette" is something I try to avoid when building a map pool for a 4-day event. As such, I must vote NO to induct.


Battlefield 23: Flash thinks this is one of his best maps. Do I agree?

Yeah, I largely agree. As the only person with a (private) tier list of Flash's maps, I'm not sure whether it's in his top 5, but that speaks more to the quality of many of his other maps.

I included it in the ScapeCon 2021 map pool, and I definitely stand by its inclusion. It's a very balanced map. The road is useful, but not *too* useful. As a melee player, many modern map makers make it TOO easy on melee players. While this map is very melee-friendly, it straddles the border nicely with flanking opportunities and a set back starting zone to delay/hamper melee development just enough. The jungle does exactly what it's meant to do here, and although I don't love the one bush covering the height towards the center, it doesn't hurt gameplay too much.

Development up the right hill feels easier and safer than up the left, but this is counteracted by the staging ground that the tree provides. This is a nice position to strike up the hill or across the center at a moment's notice.

All in all, Flash hit it out of the park with this map. This is exactly the quality I'm looking for in a WoS map. YES to induct.
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  #243  
Old August 25th, 2021, 06:44 PM
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Re: Wargrounds of Scape (WoS) - discussion thread

With 6 Judges, maps need 5 yes votes to be inducted?
How did Platypus get inducted with two yes votes?
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  #244  
Old August 25th, 2021, 06:49 PM
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Re: Wargrounds of Scape (WoS) - discussion thread

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Originally Posted by Tornado View Post
With 6 Judges, maps need 5 yes votes to be inducted?
How did Platypus get inducted with two yes votes?
It depends on how many judges vote within the 4-month time window. If 4 judges vote, 3 yes votes are needed. If only 1 judge were to vote, and they up-voted it, it would be inducted. Platypus was before my time on the bench- looks like only two people voted, and both voted yes. FWIW, I'd also vote yes.

Also, a sitting judge can vote to recall a previously inducted map, if they don't feel it's up to today's (or tomorrow's) standards.
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  #245  
Old August 25th, 2021, 08:29 PM
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Re: Wargrounds of Scape (WoS) - discussion thread

Valledonn Fortress: Anyone who knows me knows that perhaps my biggest map pet peeve is unintuitive starting zones. A map like Aeon (back 3, no road or water) is about the worst I'm willing to let slide.

Unfortunately, there's no way I could include this at ScapeCon based on the starting zones alone. Upon first glance, I thought they were alternating 2's and 3's (which would really be pushing it for me, but I may be willing to let that slide). They're actually ALMOST that... but with a deviation.

I agree with dok on some of his points. I think a revised version of this map could be good- maybe even good enough for WoS (admittedly I haven't played it, but I think it has a good deal of potential).

The WoS is supposed to be the best of the best. I don't think a "best" map has an unintuitive starting zone that makes the map almost unplayable at live events. As such, I must vote NO.
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  #246  
Old August 25th, 2021, 10:23 PM
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Re: Wargrounds of Scape (WoS) - discussion thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by OEAO View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tornado View Post
With 6 Judges, maps need 5 yes votes to be inducted?
How did Platypus get inducted with two yes votes?
It depends on how many judges vote within the 4-month time window. If 4 judges vote, 3 yes votes are needed. If only 1 judge were to vote, and they up-voted it, it would be inducted. Platypus was before my time on the bench- looks like only two people voted, and both voted yes. FWIW, I'd also vote yes.

Also, a sitting judge can vote to recall a previously inducted map, if they don't feel it's up to today's (or tomorrow's) standards.
The short answer is that two "no" votes sink a map.
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  #247  
Old August 25th, 2021, 10:40 PM
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Re: Wargrounds of Scape (WoS) - discussion thread

Not sure if I'm allowed to nominate maps that are not my own...but one of my favorites is by 1Mmirg (who also happens to be a judge, so not sure he'll be able to nominate his own anyway?)...so it MUST be good right?

I've also decided to throw one of my "less conventional" maps into the ring for consideration.

Here goes nothin'!

High Ways or the Highway (jungle edition) by @1Mmirg

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p.s. what is the stance on "version" maps being played at tourneys? i.e. if a map goes under revision does that revision need to be played at tournaments at least 2 times before nomination? if it's a big enough overhaul, I would think yes...but say a map just needed to tweak a couple hexes...would that warrant a "reset" on the tournament counter? for example, if a map here got nominated but you gave feedback saying it need a couple tweaks, the mapmaker tweaks them...can he re-nominate?

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  #248  
Old August 25th, 2021, 11:03 PM
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Re: Wargrounds of Scape (WoS) - discussion thread

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Originally Posted by Sir Heroscape View Post
Not sure if I'm allowed to nominate maps that are not my own...
Not only can you, but I'd encourage you (and everyone else) to! Thanks for all the submissions!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Heroscape View Post
p.s. what is the stance on "version" maps being played at tourneys? i.e. if a map goes under revision does that revision need to be played at tournaments at least 2 times before nomination? if it's a big enough overhaul, I would think yes...but say a map just needed to tweak a couple hexes...would that warrant a "reset" on the tournament counter? for example, if a map here got nominated but you gave feedback saying it need a couple tweaks, the mapmaker tweaks them...can he re-nominate?
The current version must have been played at at least two tourneys, no matter how small the tweak. The point of this project is to recognize excellent maps- not to workshop them. That isn't to say that we won't offer any feedback, but that isn't the goal of the project.

We really don't want this to go the way of the SoV (nothing against that fine project), where people almost exclusively nominate their own units, get rejected, make one small tweak, resubmit, get rejected, make one more small tweak, get rejected... The tourney rule is there to prevent people from repeatedly trying to jam a map through.

Ideally, people will be nominating other people's maps anyways- maps that they love to play on and think deserve a spot among the best of the best.
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  #249  
Old August 25th, 2021, 11:15 PM
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Re: Wargrounds of Scape (WoS) - discussion thread

We also hope that people will say “hey I’d like to nominate this map to the WoS, can you give it a spin at your next tournament?” I know OHS takes suggestions, and so does Peoria and Utah and Louisville…
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  #250  
Old August 25th, 2021, 11:20 PM
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Re: Wargrounds of Scape (WoS) - discussion thread

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Oh yeah, we never announced it but Dignan has jumped on the judging panel!
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  #251  
Old August 25th, 2021, 11:38 PM
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Re: Wargrounds of Scape (WoS) - discussion thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by superfrog View Post
Bad Moon Rising
Dok has helped me to love this map (I agree it's underappreciated). For me this is THE map with two unconnected roads, but each side of the road is important to development and endgame play. Plus it looks great.
I've never played on this one! — note to self, must remedy that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OEAO View Post
Just completed a major overhaul of the second post- it should be completely up-to-date now. It's very possible I screwed up a link or two (or even vote color or two), so just let me know if you see an error and I'll fix it soon(tm).
Man, so on top of things! You're a logistical MACHINE.
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  #252  
Old August 25th, 2021, 11:39 PM
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Re: Wargrounds of Scape (WoS) - discussion thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by dok View Post
Welcome to 1Mmirg who has agreed to join our judging ranks. We now have a 6-judge panel.
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