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  #3961  
Old January 11th, 2020, 11:20 AM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

I saw him on Discord but I didn’t get a chance to review there!

I think there is probably a better way to word Leaving Engagement Strike, but as is I fear he might be too strong with such a high move. LES has the potential to wipe out tons of squaddies in a single turn. Stacking that on top of Roman bonding might be just too much.

Marro Manuever is very cool for the Groks, but would also need testing with the OP as heck Marro Warriors and other strong Marros to see if its not too rough against melee.

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  #3962  
Old January 11th, 2020, 11:25 AM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Quote:
Originally Posted by Airballshooter View Post
I'm looking for some feedback on this little guy.


The first version was able to roll for Leaving engagement strikes each time he leaves an engagement and had only 5 move. I wanted him to be faster so he can keep up with the Grok Riders but with the old ability i think it wouldve been to strong, because he could do up to 4 wounds in one turn on the same figure. This way he is limited to one attack per figure per movement.

With his second ability he is supposed to make Grok Riders not getting stuck with pesky rats or any other screening unit. this making it possible to attack the actual unit they want to smash with 5 attack dice. His defense helps him to survive a while in combat and is tanky enough to let the groks get some attacks in.

The bonding with the Romans i dont see as problematic, since they dont benedit from his second ability and can't make use of his whole potential.

I'm a bit worried about availability for this mini. When i looked it up yesterday i found the following:
eBay:17
miniatures market: 10
trollandtoad:12
coolstuffinc.: 0
paizo: 0
total: 39
It's on the lower side, but i still have hope because i heard that alot of scapers already got the mini, and maybe the judge could do a poll to see how many actually need him still.

The miniature used is: #48 Cerebrilith - D&D Night Below

Fun Fact: "Lösen von Bindungen" (BIN-DUNG-EN) is the german translation for "leaving an Engagement"
I think a marro warlord that can clear the way is an elegant way to boost the Grok Riders. I'd recommend checking out Arthur of Sherwood's Passing Blow ability to help with wording for Leaving Engagement Strike. I'd also recommend a more flavorful power name, off the top of my head maybe Passing Swipes or something. On it's own, that power gives Bin-Dung-En the ability to free up the Grok Riders for an easier time of getting off a big attack at some important target. Because of that, I'm not sure how necessary Marro Maneuver is. I'd definitely recommend just giving BDE straight Disengage, and then if you wanted to keep Marro Maneuver maybe draw from Count Raymond's Maneuver ability.

As far as the figure, I think I maybe remember some contention that it didn't fit well for a Marro Warlord, and was more Hivelord-esque due to it's non-humanoid shape, but that could be me mis-remembering honestly. I'd also caution against a name that has the word "Dung" in it...

Stats-wise BDE is a beast, but I figure that's a good thing if you're using him in a Grok Rider army because you're not gonna have the points for many figures and your Groks are still going to fall pretty quick.

I think this is a great start to a Marro Warlord to boost the Groks, keep up the good work!

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  #3963  
Old January 11th, 2020, 11:59 AM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Allowing the disengager to make leaving engagement attacks isn't going to fly. "Leaving engagement attack" has a specific meaning in Heroscape, and it will break things to change that. Also, as people noted, it's super, super powerful. 50/50 shots at an auto-wound is a really powerful ability regardless; having it be so easy to do and be able to do it many times per turn is way, way too much, regardless of cost.

As Maklar noted, a reuse of Passing Swipes would be fine. All of the nasty timing issues have been taken care of and it's limited in power.

Giving Disengage to Marros is a neat way to help Grok Riders, but is probably overpowered for Stingers. Especially such a large aura on such a strong defensive figure.

While the design has promise, I don't see it matching the miniature well. I'm definitely against 8 Move, as there's nothing about the mini that supports that. 4 Attack is fine, but the powerful combination of 5 Life and 6 Defense requires a good reason for it (being a passive aura figure is a decent reason). A Maneuver ability for Marro is neat, but I don't see anything about the creepy mini to justify it thematically. How is it providing this ability? Tactics by high intelligence? It's not wrong, but I'd like to hear the justification.
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  #3964  
Old January 11th, 2020, 05:05 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

He is pretty pricey for the overall utility, it’s not a bad custom but doesn’t really fit current Marro and certainly not the Groks. I’d agree with Scytale’s assessment of the Cerebrilith making a better Hivelord or Warwitch perhaps. As for the figure it is far too hard to come by to use as an actual SOV unit. That set is a good 12-15 years old so it’s to be expected.

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  #3965  
Old January 18th, 2020, 05:59 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop



I put some more thoughts into Bin-Dun-Gen. Yes i slightly adjusted the name by request, because i can see that "Dung" is a weird name to have.

the Leaving engagement strike is different now. it only works against figures he was engaged too at the start of his turn. i used the text from athur's passing blow to make stuff more clear and i hope the timing issues are fine now.

since ppl were worried about Marro Warcry (before Marro Maneuver) beeing to powerful with basically every ranged marro squad i put in a a requirement to be able to use it. i think its an elegant way to not make it to abusable for stingers or warriors.
renaming it into a warcry gives me the freedom to say that he is not using a super high intelligence or whatever, but he is just telling his mates that they are on the wrong targets and jelling at them to ignore the current fight and move on to the more important guys they have to get. it also gives hima reason to be a Warlord now and not a Hivelord.

Im not sure if there are going to be timing issues with warcry, but i think the way i worded it, it should be fine.

other minor things i changed are the reduction in his move number from 8 t 7. it is not needed since 7 is more than enough to keep up with the groks.
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  #3966  
Old January 18th, 2020, 09:18 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

The name still does not follow the naming convention of Marro Warlords.

Leaving Engagement Strike is much more interesting than before. Now it's much more of tactical decision that both sides can play around. However, it is really isn't, thanks to Bin's crazy stats. High Move and Defense combined with solid Life means he can easily engage figures and can easily survive a round of attacks. There's little risk for a lot of reward, which isn't a good thing.

Marro Warcry now has the "uncertain future requirement" problem. You cannot guarantee that the Marro can actually make it to the enemy Hero while moving (it may die in the process, for example), which means it fails to meet the condition that allowed it to move in the first place. There are (really ugly) ways to word it to follow precedent, but it's not a design space that should be used lightly.

The stats are still an issue to me. I struggle to see how this figure warrants such high Move. I understand you want him to keep up with Groks, but Move 7 is just overly high. Defense 6 + Life 5 is still questionable to me as well. Does he have to be a hardcore tank, for some reason? Unless the purpose is to make Leaving Engagement Strike really powerful, I don't see why this unit has to be so tough.

Most importantly, though, as has been pointed out, that figure just isn't available enough to use for an SoV unit. Unless you can prove decent availability, it sadly won't get approval, despite the quality of the design.
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  #3967  
Old January 20th, 2020, 07:46 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Hey guys, hopefully everyone can see this image. I wanted feedback, I'd love to submit these as a custom, the sculpts are sick! If you can't see 'em, holler at me and i'll try to fix em!

Introducing...The Order of Kryptea! I want these guys to be lethal, annoying, and yet still not be over powered. I was thinking perhaps increase the Vanish roll to 13, or mebbe 14? I dunno, thoughts...? Thanks!



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  #3968  
Old January 20th, 2020, 09:27 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

I don't see a card. Just the link to the minis.

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  #3969  
Old January 26th, 2020, 10:17 AM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Any more opinions on Cade and his doppelganger



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  #3970  
Old January 27th, 2020, 03:56 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

It's the cleanest version of Cade you've posted. Two attacks of two is weak, but Sneak Attack and defensive tricks make up for that. Looks pretty good.
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  #3971  
Old January 28th, 2020, 01:32 AM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

The design falls a little flat for me. But, that's just my opinion. He's basically a 50pt Isamu with some tricks that would be more interesting on a higher powered, mage-type figure or something. The fact that he's a Halfling illusionist is just odd to me, especially when nothing about the mini suggests magic, illusion or skill/abilities like that. The ability and design seem forced in that there are 2 minis of the same figure and one happens to be a transparent double. I don't mind the powers so much, I just don't think it makes sense to put them on such a low-powered filler unit.
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  #3972  
Old January 29th, 2020, 05:45 AM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Heroscape View Post
The design falls a little flat for me. But, that's just my opinion. He's basically a 50pt Isamu with some tricks that would be more interesting on a higher powered, mage-type figure or something. The fact that he's a Halfling illusionist is just odd to me, especially when nothing about the mini suggests magic, illusion or skill/abilities like that. The ability and design seem forced in that there are 2 minis of the same figure and one happens to be a transparent double. I don't mind the powers so much, I just don't think it makes sense to put them on such a low-powered filler unit.
He does play a bit differently than Isamu and I think if he was more powerful there would be a bigger rift between cade and the Doppelganger. Which means when the Doppelganger dies you have wasted alot of points. Because cade is low in points the risk is worth taking. I could make a more powerful version where cade can resummon the Doppelganger, but then there is less of an incentive to target the Doppelganger. Illusionists are all about mystery and surprise and I think the fact he does not look like a obvious wizard suits the design.
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