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C3G Legacy Archive of all the original discussions and workshops from the first stage of C3G.


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  #49  
Old May 29th, 2013, 08:04 PM
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Re: C3G Requests for Reevaluation

That's correct. She also can only remove OMs once per round.

C3G can be played with official Heroscape, but it's not recommended.


DISCLAIMER: C3G claims no ownership of the characters or artwork used for C3G customs. All rights for the characters belong to their respective publishers/creators. C3G cards are not intended for sale, and C3G does not authorize any party to profit from C3G cards.

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  #50  
Old May 29th, 2013, 08:28 PM
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Re: C3G Requests for Reevaluation

Jean Grey should be able to use her Telekinesis 12 on tiny figures. I think she was released before there were any tiny figures and that's why it's not on the card.
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  #51  
Old May 29th, 2013, 08:30 PM
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Re: C3G Requests for Reevaluation

Most Tiny figures have Tiny Stealth anyway. Can't throw what you can't see.

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DISCLAIMER: C3G claims no ownership of the characters or artwork used for C3G customs. All rights for the characters belong to their respective publishers/creators. C3G cards are not intended for sale, and C3G does not authorize any party to profit from C3G cards.

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  #52  
Old May 29th, 2013, 10:41 PM
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Re: C3G Requests for Reevaluation

Quote:
Originally Posted by IAmBatman View Post
Most Tiny figures have Tiny Stealth anyway. Can't throw what you can't see.
But she should be able to sense their presence.

Just like she can sense the presence of a missle behind the plane while it's flying toward them.
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  #53  
Old May 30th, 2013, 08:51 PM
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Re: C3G Requests for Reevaluation

I thought it was something that would be fixed easily and the only reason it wasn't on the card was because there weren't tiny figures around when she was made (from what I know).

By my count there are 6 tiny figure: Rat Swarm, Ant Swarm, Killer Bee, Wasp, Atom, & Ant-Man. I didn't realize half of them had Tiny Stealth (the latter 3, all unique heroes). But the 3 without Tiny Stealth are common, so you could end up with lots of figures in a game that everyone including Jean can attack from range, but not be able to use Telekinesis on (has happened to me).

Anyway, Jean can bypass Tiny Stealth the same as everyone else, by moving adjacent. Abomination can move adjacent and grab hold of a tiny figure to throw them. Jean should be able to do the same with Telekinesis.
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  #54  
Old May 30th, 2013, 08:58 PM
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Re: C3G Requests for Reevaluation

Well, like anything, put together the playtests showing it's needed, and we'll consider it.

C3G can be played with official Heroscape, but it's not recommended.


DISCLAIMER: C3G claims no ownership of the characters or artwork used for C3G customs. All rights for the characters belong to their respective publishers/creators. C3G cards are not intended for sale, and C3G does not authorize any party to profit from C3G cards.

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  #55  
Old May 30th, 2013, 09:19 PM
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Re: C3G Requests for Reevaluation

Quote:
Originally Posted by IAmBatman View Post
Well, like anything, put together the playtests showing it's needed, and we'll consider it.
I don't think TSIYW is really trying to argue that it's "needed" in the sense of being broken if it's not changed. I suppose you could come up with an army matchup where Jean's army wins a significantly higher fraction of the time when she can toss ant swarms or rat swarms than when she can't, but really, what would that prove?

His point, as I understand it, is, "I think you would have written the power this way if tiny figures had existed at that time; maybe you should re-write it now". It's more of a question of theme than a question of balance.
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  #56  
Old May 30th, 2013, 09:23 PM
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Re: C3G Requests for Reevaluation

Quote:
Originally Posted by quozl View Post
If there is a general consensus that a C3G design needs a tweak for competitive play, please post it in this thread.

If you come to a consensus and post at least 6 different army tests by 3 different people, we will take that data and evaluate it in the sanctum. Then we'll get back to you with how we want to go from there. Please post the standard playtest reports in this thread.

When the design is finalized, the card will be updated and a post in that design thread will be made noting the update.
Good point. Guess he didn't post his suggestion in a very appropriate thread then, did he?

C3G can be played with official Heroscape, but it's not recommended.


DISCLAIMER: C3G claims no ownership of the characters or artwork used for C3G customs. All rights for the characters belong to their respective publishers/creators. C3G cards are not intended for sale, and C3G does not authorize any party to profit from C3G cards.

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  #57  
Old May 31st, 2013, 12:01 AM
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Re: C3G Requests for Reevaluation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smithy Winfred View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by dok View Post
Good idea to break this off from the strategy thread.

The other ones I would consider revisiting, aside from Puppet Master:
  • Joker I - the OM rearrangement is just too nasty and frustrating. If it were just one OM it would still be pretty potent.
  • Mastermind - very underpriced for the ability to turn 6 heroes invisible. Should cost at least twice as much.
  • Sage - Basically eliminates all past concepts of OM management. If you limit it to once per round then it's still very powerful, but this breaks up the Sage/Braniac5 combo and makes it less dominant in general.
  • Angel, 5th Prescinct Beat Cops, Alfred Pennyworth - nothing wrong with these guys except that they are underpriced.
  • Magma - reasonably priced in isolation, but her combos with Magneto, et al, are so nasty that I think she needs a price boost of at least 50 points.
  • Bizarro - reasonably priced for his stats, but Villainous Defense seems stronger than Superman's version and that just doesn't jive for me.
After that it starts to drop off a bit. I'd argue for Martian Manhunter, Doctor Light/Metiorite, and Shadowcat next, but none of these are as pressing as the ones I list above. Enchantress might belong here, too, but I need more time to consider her. I've only watched her shred a ridiculous army once, personally.

I have less experience on the flip side. The only figure that I look at and say "I'd never draft that guy" is Penguin, although Ventriloquist, Doomsday, and Impossible Man all seem underpowered to me. I'll probably get an argument on Doomsday.
I disagree about doomsday, his increasing defense, combined with a powerful attack, and an ability to re-spawn makes him very effective in longer battles (1500+). he can also bypass Kryptonian defense, which is another added plus.

I TOTALLY agree with you on the Blinding Light figures (namely Meteorite). She can totally wreck an entire team by herself if that team relys on clear sight (I lost a huge advantage that I had with Purple Man because of her). At least Dr Light can be picked off by snipers, but Meteorite you have to be right next to her, at which point she can use her manipulation power on you and stop you from attacking, it just isn't fair. I don't think she needs a point increase, I think her powers need to be re-evaluated entirely. (I hope I didn't come off to critical)

My second, is Batroc the Leaper, even though he is my favorite figure. His chance for a auto skull (a huge advantage) and a base 5/5 stats, make him a formidible opponent for anyone who doesn't have range. His dodge might have a lot of loopholes, but if he goes against Batman, Bats will lose 4 out of 5 times. I don't think he should be redesigned at all, I love the design, but I think a 20 point increase would be perfect.

Some others, very quickly:

- Wendigo could use a point drop
- Loki could be reduced a tad
- Penguin needs a increase for self importance
- Ventriloquist needs more potent powers
- Iron Man MK3 is too weak compared to the others
- Hawkeye either needs a point drop, or a increase to his powers, he just isnt on the same level as Green Arrow
I just watched Wendigo kill 1800 points in Relishmonster and TheMind's game in SLH season 4.....I doubt he needs a point drop...I would price him more at 400 in the games I have played/watched.
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  #58  
Old May 31st, 2013, 12:45 PM
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Re: C3G Requests for Reevaluation

Consolidated Hero thoughts
Spoiler Alert!

A cloud can change its semblance, yet retain its will
With the intimacy of destruction, One knows what it is to be alive
The empty sky holds no reflection, for sorrow
- Eslo Rudkey
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  #59  
Old May 31st, 2013, 01:18 PM
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Re: C3G Requests for Reevaluation

hahahaha. So you're saying they want tests?

I am not a very fast tester, but I was toying with a reasonable PM test that I thought could be done quickly and make the point about how Puppet Master enables ridiculous turtle armies when combined with some defensive help. I was thinking Green Lantern map, with teams:

Thaal, Arkillo, and 3 Sinestro Corp soldiers (970)

vs.

Puppet Master, Angel, Weather Wizard, Beat Cops x3, Thor (955)

I think that a large percentage of the time, team 2 wins that fight without ever putting a numbered OM on Thor - or they do so at the end just to speed things along in cleanup (i.e. to kill the last figure or two after Puppet Master has done most of the damage). A couple tests of this would make the point fairly clearly.

Last edited by dok; May 31st, 2013 at 01:57 PM. Reason: decided 3 squads of beat cops would be enough.
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  #60  
Old June 8th, 2013, 07:21 PM
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Re: C3G Requests for Reevaluation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yodaking View Post
So I've been thinking about where I'd want to see an updated Nightcrawler fall power wise. I think 160 points is a good place to target for him. He is not quite to the level of Emma Frost or Bishop at 170, but should be on even footing with Banshee at 160 and slightly better then Iceman at 150.

Now what D20# would get us better into that point range? I'm looking at the 160 point Spider-Man card and his D20# is down at 11+, however he would also have 1 more life, 1 more defense, & 1 more movement then our Nightcrawler. Then both have a SA that is pretty different in nature so they would be hard to compare. Both are SA or 3, but one involves moving and attacking adj. figures up to 3 times, the other one is a single ranged attack that lowers a figures defense by 1. Each SA has it's usefulness vs. a different type of opponents figures. Still the +1 def. & +1 life is fairly significant in terms of survivability and extending Nightcrawler's survivability is the reason for the update. So without changing the def. or life numbers I think Nightcrawler should have a slightly better D20 roll.

Thus my suggestion would be that we update his evade power to fall into line with all the other powers of a similar nature and extend it to cover special attacks as well. Then lower the roll down to 10+ and test him out at 160 to see how he does.
It has been over a week and no input or comments so I guess I'm going to go ahead and run some tests this week using the changes listed above. I don't know if anyone else will be running any tests for him but at one point we had multiple people asking for an update.

*Edit* On a side note, the class of Recluse seems odd to me. It is almost as if he has two personalities rather then a class & personality. If anyone has any thoughts on a different class for Nightcrawler, this would be the time to suggest the change as if a new class were to give him some new synergies, then those should be tested as well.

Last edited by Yodaking; June 8th, 2013 at 07:51 PM.
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