Heroscapers
Go Back   Heroscapers > Custom HeroScape Creations > Custom Units & Army Cards
Custom Units & Army Cards Fan-created HS army cards for units, glyphs, and equipment


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #4333  
Old September 17th, 2020, 06:45 PM
Astroking112's Avatar
Astroking112 Astroking112 is online now
 
Join Date: March 15, 2011
Location: USA - TX - Dallas
Posts: 2,515
Images: 29
Blog Entries: 43
Astroking112 is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla Astroking112 is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla Astroking112 is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla Astroking112 is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla Astroking112 is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla Astroking112 is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla Astroking112 is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla Astroking112 is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla Astroking112 is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla Astroking112 is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla
Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Quote:
Originally Posted by NecroBlade View Post
Mindless Pack Enhancement would definitely help out the Thralls a lot. I like how it doesn't tweak their unreliability too much, still placing an emphasis on that roll for how many activations they get.

I agree with the others who pointed out that Elbad could be really fun as a Thrall. It would probably necessitate a life drop to account for Nicholas bringing him back, but that would actually be a very fun synergy. As the opponent, you suddenly have to weigh whether it's worth killing Elbad multiple times to cut down on the Mindless Pack Enhancement, while he can suddenly become much more aggressive. Perhaps in that instance, limiting the additional turn from Mindless Pack to other thralls could be an avenue to explore for avoiding him essentially "bonding" with the Thralls every time.

That would also make Necromantic Nexus more generally useful. There really aren't a ton of times that come to mind when I would rather place a revived Undead in my starting zone instead of on the battlefield, but if Elbad is actually frequenting the battlefield himself, then I could see it having a lot more utility.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NecroBlade View Post
What if it wasn't the Thrall army (yet), that Nicholas was showing Iskra? Maybe it was Elbad. And what if Marcu gave Cyprien a reason to curse him (beyond his brother being a jerk)? Maybe Marcu's longing to lead armies, though he did on Feylund, had an ambitious streak like Nicholas'. Marcu could've sided with Nicholas and helped him create Elbad (and in turn the Thralls), and it was when Cyprien found this out that he cursed Marcu. With Elbad's assistance, then, Nicholas was able to create the rest of the Thrall army for his Esenwein ambitions.
The idea of a vampire soap opera taking place in HeroScape is hilarious. I find all of the family drama between the Esenweins to be some great fun, so anything that builds off of that has the potential to be a cool piece of lore. I would be a bit concerned about it getting overly complicated, but as a general concept I think that the theme might work.
Reply With Quote
  #4334  
Old September 17th, 2020, 08:26 PM
heroscaper2010's Avatar
heroscaper2010 heroscaper2010 is offline
HoSSpitable little wookiee (apparently "wookiee" has 2 E's, who knew?)
 
Join Date: September 19, 2010
Location: USA - OH - Sugarcreek
Posts: 8,310
heroscaper2010 is a penguin with a machine gun heroscaper2010 is a penguin with a machine gun heroscaper2010 is a penguin with a machine gun heroscaper2010 is a penguin with a machine gun heroscaper2010 is a penguin with a machine gun heroscaper2010 is a penguin with a machine gun heroscaper2010 is a penguin with a machine gun heroscaper2010 is a penguin with a machine gun heroscaper2010 is a penguin with a machine gun heroscaper2010 is a penguin with a machine gun heroscaper2010 is a penguin with a machine gun
Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

I hate that I have to answer my own question about what design space Ebol "blocks" (and why it's a non-issue, or really an imaginary one), but at least I finally figured it out. It's not the Sharks or Menacers that I've been so focused on meta wise. No one can design a unit more powerful than a Hydra and have it pass anyways. It's the OM Commanders.

We already have figures that throw OMs "freely". Technically activations, as only Bol and Rygarn move OMs currently. Nonetheless, there are OM Hubs already in Heroscape. Currently, all of them are restrained in numerous different ways: Type (Uniqueness/Cardinality), Species, Class, Personality, range restrictions, being adjacent after taking a turn (Command Couriers), etc. or a mix of any number of those.

Now all of these OM hubs provide security for your OMs, which is why we place them on those figures basically up until end game. Common Squads have so many figures that it is impossible to hunt them all down until end game, if it comes to it. Even so, the last Arrow Grut hiding in the start zone behind the ruin on Fire Isles can still activate Krug to hunt down Isamu behind the opponent's ruin in their start zone.

Similarly, Common Heroes with similar bonding can do the same thing. With Wyrmlings, if you have 1 Black and 1 Red Wyrmling in the heat of battle, and one Red Wyrmling sitting in your SZ, you put all of your OMs on the Red Wyrmlings because the Red Wyrmling in your SZ can activate the Black Wyrmling and either itself, or the other Red Wyrmling if it is still alive.

Note that all of the above figures, and Heroes like the Kato, Kurrok, Talingul, etc. avoid being overshadowed by Ebol by giving their factions a boost - they are each able to activate multiple units in their respective factions instead of them taking a turn. Something that Ebol can't do.

Sure, Ebol can activate Kantono, but Ebol doesn't directly activate the other Ninjas as well. It is Daishi that does that in coincidence with gaining an OM from Ebol. Ebol is unnecessary in such armies.

These OM Commanders are the light, showing us where Ebol's shadow does linger. Those places are narrowed down to units that only activate "1 unit" per OM, something that Ebol can do equally. These units currently include the Marro Hive, Omegacron, the Command Couriers, and the Minions of Utgar.

The Marro Hive is even more vulnerable than Ebol, given that it's the biggest figure in the game and can't move. However, it gives its faction something Ebol can't - Rebirth. Also worth noting that the figures the Hive bonds with wouldn't need Ebol, or for that matter, the Hive itself, if it wasn't for Rebirth.

Omegacron and the Command Couriers, for starters, can actually activate up to 2 different cards. I'll explain each in their respective paragraphs.

Omegacron's activations are a little complicated, since he can mix different squads together. This is already much different than Ebol, even if the end result is 3 figures moved and 3 figures attacked. The key difference is that Omegacron could, most usefully, move Repulsors to keep a screen intact, and then attack with Snipers from a distance. Beyond that, Omegacron himself has much better base stats and a double attack to boot. He is also Large which gives him some invulnerabilities that Ebol doesn't have (of course it makes him vulnerable to some things Ebol isn't vulnerable to as well).

The Command Couriers can activate themselves and a Vydar Hero, if they choose not to attack. This is still useful, as they can reposition in doing so. Additionally, as Common Heroes, they are able to draft 2 Command Couriers and still have 10 points left over. This instantly puts them at an advantage over Ebol as to which OM Hub the Vydar Heroes prefer, as they are much more reliable than Ebol. Common Hero status, an extra move and defense die, and Fleet Footed all help them keep the OMs afloat while in danger. They don't have quite have the same benefits from being a Common Hero as what I described above since they can't activate each other like Wyrmlings and other Common Factions, however. Still, once all of the Vydar Heroes are gone, eliminating all of the OMs on them is much harder than Ebol when they can split in two different directions. Finally, while they share the same attack value, because of the their survivability they are much more equipped to put up a fight late in the game than Ebol is.

The Minions of Utgar are actually super interesting because they already have Ebol's power. With Utgar's Orders, they can take a turn with one Kyrie Warrior who follows Utgar instead of themselves. You can just dump all of the OMs on them and pick and choose when you need to move up Taelord or Runa. Interesting way to pop Ebol like the zit he is.

The only way I can see Ebol blocking a design is if that design doesn't offer any more advantages to the unit it bonds with any more than Ebol does and has similar survivability as Ebol. Doesn't feel like that design is worth shutting Ebol out of the VC, because that design wouldn't make it anyway. This whole "Ebol blocks design space" is BS.

My Maps
Tournament Record: 28-28: .500!
Reply With Quote
  #4335  
Old September 17th, 2020, 08:32 PM
Dad_Scaper's Avatar
Dad_Scaper Dad_Scaper is offline. Isn't that smurfy?
Counting gray cells and coming up short... Also, I confess to being a fanboy.
 
Join Date: January 3, 2007
Location: MD - Baltimore
Posts: 25,940
Images: 4
Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth
Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

You don’t have to answer it. Nobody cares what the answer is. Please let others have their time in the workshop now. If you still don’t understand, read over the past few pages.

C3V "Easily the best quality classic customs I have ever seen."
Designing Customs? Help With Wurdz
= =
Reply With Quote
  #4336  
Old September 17th, 2020, 08:32 PM
Sir Heroscape's Avatar
Sir Heroscape Sir Heroscape is offline
Sir Formerly Known As adoney
 
Join Date: September 14, 2015
Location: U.S - Idaho - Boise
Posts: 6,807
Images: 105
Sir Heroscape is a penguin with a machine gun Sir Heroscape is a penguin with a machine gun Sir Heroscape is a penguin with a machine gun Sir Heroscape is a penguin with a machine gun Sir Heroscape is a penguin with a machine gun Sir Heroscape is a penguin with a machine gun Sir Heroscape is a penguin with a machine gun Sir Heroscape is a penguin with a machine gun Sir Heroscape is a penguin with a machine gun Sir Heroscape is a penguin with a machine gun Sir Heroscape is a penguin with a machine gun Sir Heroscape is a penguin with a machine gun
Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

I'm a designer. I get push back ALL the time on my ideas and powers in the designs I create personally AND internally in the C3V. It hurts sometimes...but I have to trust that as a designer I inherently have "blinders on" towards the way I see my design. Others who see the design get to see it from a different perspective and often see where the design falls short and can help the design by providing that feedback.

As I see it, you've had a wonderful opportunity to get SO MANY people (inside and outside the C3V) to give feedback on Ebol and help you playtest it even. But, I haven't seen you once attempt to understand, acknowledge or consider that the feecback is valid...in fact you've actively argued against every point people have brought up against the design.

Take the feedback and take it to heart. Think about it, process it and try to understand why the design fails. It may take time (it takes me weeks sometimes) to come around and realize why it caused so many issues...but it's important to come to that realization, otherwise your time WILL be wasted if the design never changes.
Reply With Quote
  #4337  
Old September 17th, 2020, 08:36 PM
heroscaper2010's Avatar
heroscaper2010 heroscaper2010 is offline
HoSSpitable little wookiee (apparently "wookiee" has 2 E's, who knew?)
 
Join Date: September 19, 2010
Location: USA - OH - Sugarcreek
Posts: 8,310
heroscaper2010 is a penguin with a machine gun heroscaper2010 is a penguin with a machine gun heroscaper2010 is a penguin with a machine gun heroscaper2010 is a penguin with a machine gun heroscaper2010 is a penguin with a machine gun heroscaper2010 is a penguin with a machine gun heroscaper2010 is a penguin with a machine gun heroscaper2010 is a penguin with a machine gun heroscaper2010 is a penguin with a machine gun heroscaper2010 is a penguin with a machine gun heroscaper2010 is a penguin with a machine gun
Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper View Post
You don’t have to answer it. Nobody cares what the answer is. Please let others have their time in the workshop now. If you still don’t understand, read over the past few pages.
How is this allowed? I am seriously mind blown at this response. Scy says Ebol cast a long shadow over design space. I have literally delivered that design space to you on a silver platter. It is nothing. It is imaginary.

If you still don't understand, read over the past few pages.

And when any of you finally understand, and want to stop giving the same pathetic answer each time you post, Ebol will be waiting.

Thank you.

My Maps
Tournament Record: 28-28: .500!
Reply With Quote
  #4338  
Old September 17th, 2020, 09:11 PM
quozl's Avatar
quozl quozl is offline
Silly quozl, dinosaurs are for orcs!
 
Join Date: January 11, 2008
Location: USA - WA - Vancouver
Posts: 24,392
Images: 122
Blog Entries: 3
quozl is a wielder of the Ban Hammer quozl is a wielder of the Ban Hammer quozl is a wielder of the Ban Hammer quozl is a wielder of the Ban Hammer quozl is a wielder of the Ban Hammer quozl is a wielder of the Ban Hammer quozl is a wielder of the Ban Hammer quozl is a wielder of the Ban Hammer quozl is a wielder of the Ban Hammer quozl is a wielder of the Ban Hammer quozl is a wielder of the Ban Hammer quozl is a wielder of the Ban Hammer quozl is a wielder of the Ban Hammer quozl is a wielder of the Ban Hammer quozl is a wielder of the Ban Hammer
Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Sigh. HS2010, people are getting annoyed with you just like you are getting annoyed with them. Is anything constructive being said about Ebol now?

Since you are so insistent, I do not like the "All OMs must be placed on Ebol" power. It restricts what I can do as a player. It also restricts the design space of "I want to make putting an OM on this card cost more than usual". Like maybe I want to design a card that you can't put OMs on unless certain criteria are met. Whatever. Now please step back and do not post in this thread for a little while. Think about what was said. And then think about the emotions behind what was said. Sometimes a post does not make logical sense because it is trying to express the emotion to the poster and many people have had a strong emotional reaction to Ebol. So, please let it rest for a day or two.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Van Ness View Post
I highly recommend C3V and C3G customs!
Reply With Quote
  #4339  
Old September 17th, 2020, 10:13 PM
NecroBlade's Avatar
NecroBlade NecroBlade is offline
"our design team knows what it's doing"
 
Join Date: November 22, 2006
Location: KY - Shepherdsville
Posts: 20,766
Images: 133
Blog Entries: 21
NecroBlade is a man of the cloth NecroBlade is a man of the cloth NecroBlade is a man of the cloth NecroBlade is a man of the cloth NecroBlade is a man of the cloth NecroBlade is a man of the cloth NecroBlade is a man of the cloth NecroBlade is a man of the cloth NecroBlade is a man of the cloth NecroBlade is a man of the cloth NecroBlade is a man of the cloth NecroBlade is a man of the cloth NecroBlade is a man of the cloth NecroBlade is a man of the cloth NecroBlade is a man of the cloth
Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scytale View Post
Elbad, the Necro-Assistant

This design is a mix of things I like and things I don't, but the ones I don't I fairly minor. Overall it's an interesting design that's nicely restrained in stats.
That's a good start: "interesting" and "restrained" were both goals!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scytale View Post
The bio is overly complicated. Frankly, it feels it's being forced into the Esenwein story when it doesn't even need to be connected to the Esenweins. That's not a big deal though, and not really a problem, except I worry that it's holding back the design. For example, Elbad doesn't have to be a thrall creation at all.
I feel like this is more a fault of my introductory post than the bio itself. The bio is essentially:
  • The Esenweins are all ambitious leaders of the Undead on Feylund.
  • When Cyprien finds out Marcu makes a power-grabbing pact with Nicholas, Cyprien curses his own brother.
  • However, Marcu was already able to help Nicholas create Elbad, whose assistance Nicholas continues to use to create his own Thrall army.
That's it. All the extra explanation and linking was just trying to help show this bio fits perfectly into the existing canon. And Elbad is only supposed to be a "Thrall" in the sense that he was created by the vampires to serve the vampires. He's smarter and more powerful than the average re-reanimating mindless servant.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Scytale View Post
Mindless Pack Enhancement is a cool idea for a power. My only worry that it will make him a must-pick in a Thrall army. That may not be a bad thing, though. I don't mind "Mindless Pack Enhancement" though it's not perfect; I'm against anything "Supremacy" unless it does +1 to the d20, like every other Supremacy power.
I hoped to balance his "must-pick" nature with a 3-Thrall point cost. I suspect Nicholas + Elbad + 9 Thralls is better than Nicholas + 12 Thralls (and both probably better still than Elbad + 14 Thralls). But it's not without its disadvantages, as having fewer Thralls hurts the ability to bring a flexible variety (as there are 4 different options already, and possibly more in the future) and it's easier for your opponent to wipe out 6 of them and lower your maximum potential than 10. Although I agree a d20-boosting power would be "Supremacy", I do prefer Mindless Pack Enhancement Command (as it actually should be named) as something a little more unique (although similar).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scytale View Post
Necromatic Nexus is a cool idea, though I suspect of little value in practice. It would take a lot of playtesting to be sure, but Elbad isn't tough enough to put him near the front lines, and not worth any order markers otherwise. No, I don't really think that Nexus is good enough to warrant order markers for positioning for any of the existing summoning Undead. He's the Khosumet of the Thralls that way, just someone to leave in the back for the enhancement. I don't actually mind that for this unit, but if Nexus is a dead power that's a problem. That could be solved by making him a Thrall as was suggested, as he could get some turns in with other Thralls and the player wouldn't be so afraid to lose him, though the "smart undead" concept doesn't fit the "Mindless Pack" theme so well, nor does the power level you have him at as you noted. (It does lead to some potentially interesting gameplay decisions, though. Do I kill Elbad if he'll just come back, or try to focus my attention elsewhere?)
In addition to adding a small Ranged option to the faction, the other reason is it gives him something to do on an order marker other than position the Nexus. I find the suggestion of making him a Thrall interesting in that I suspect if he had been a Thrall from the beginning there would have been a lot of push back to adding a sudden strong bonding option to the otherwise mediocre group. I'm honestly much more interested in a balanced non-bonding option (as I've tried to supporcort elsewhere ) because there are ways to expand factions and faction synergy beyond "yet another bonding option".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scytale View Post
I don't like the class Champion. It's a very broad term so I can't deny it outright, but it doesn't feel right for the design.
I was trying to find an official class that suited him. Perhaps Sorcerer, or Minion (the only other one of either)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scytale View Post
I don't like the term "Necro-assistant." It's descriptive for what you want as a concept, but it sounds kinda lame to me, to be blunt. I'd like it better as a class than a name, oddly enough.
Did Necro-Mage Elbad strike you as any better? That wouldn't work with "Sorcerer" as the class, but might with "Minion". Or maybe carve out a new "Mage", a step down from Sonlen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Astroking112 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by NecroBlade View Post
Mindless Pack Enhancement would definitely help out the Thralls a lot. I like how it doesn't tweak their unreliability too much, still placing an emphasis on that roll for how many activations they get.
Right, just wanted to improve the average, not eliminate the roll.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Astroking112 View Post
I agree with the others who pointed out that Elbad could be really fun as a Thrall. It would probably necessitate a life drop to account for Nicholas bringing him back, but that would actually be a very fun synergy. As the opponent, you suddenly have to weigh whether it's worth killing Elbad multiple times to cut down on the Mindless Pack Enhancement, while he can suddenly become much more aggressive. Perhaps in that instance, limiting the additional turn from Mindless Pack to other thralls could be an avenue to explore for avoiding him essentially "bonding" with the Thralls every time.

That would also make Necromantic Nexus more generally useful. There really aren't a ton of times that come to mind when I would rather place a revived Undead in my starting zone instead of on the battlefield, but if Elbad is actually frequenting the battlefield himself, then I could see it having a lot more utility.
I can't argue making him a Thrall wouldn't add more utility, but see above regarding his intended status and my thoughts on leaning on bonding for additions to a faction. Note that it probably works best with the Skeletons, as you can use Elbad as a forward spawn point and keep your Lord/Lady/Duke/Duchess in reserve. Since MPC only helps Thralls, I'm OK with NN being more useful elsewhere, though I have had fun having the option of spawning Thralls with Nicholas on one end of the battlefield or with Elbad on the other. It's that kind of subtle, "soft" synergy that I'm going for.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Astroking112 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by NecroBlade View Post
What if it wasn't the Thrall army (yet), that Nicholas was showing Iskra? Maybe it was Elbad. And what if Marcu gave Cyprien a reason to curse him (beyond his brother being a jerk)? Maybe Marcu's longing to lead armies, though he did on Feylund, had an ambitious streak like Nicholas'. Marcu could've sided with Nicholas and helped him create Elbad (and in turn the Thralls), and it was when Cyprien found this out that he cursed Marcu. With Elbad's assistance, then, Nicholas was able to create the rest of the Thrall army for his Esenwein ambitions.
The idea of a vampire soap opera taking place in HeroScape is hilarious. I find all of the family drama between the Esenweins to be some great fun, so anything that builds off of that has the potential to be a cool piece of lore. I would be a bit concerned about it getting overly complicated, but as a general concept I think that the theme might work.
I'm glad others like the Esenwein subplot as well. While Heroscape has always been more about the figures than the writing for me, I think C3V set up some nice lore with Nicholas within the greater canon.


Arena of the Valkyire - Help create Heroscape's next Master Set!
317-149
C3V Brainstorm
Pepperony - 14/09/13
Reply With Quote
  #4340  
Old September 17th, 2020, 11:04 PM
Dad_Scaper's Avatar
Dad_Scaper Dad_Scaper is offline. Isn't that smurfy?
Counting gray cells and coming up short... Also, I confess to being a fanboy.
 
Join Date: January 3, 2007
Location: MD - Baltimore
Posts: 25,940
Images: 4
Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth
Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

I love Elbad the Igor, @NecroBlade . “Yes, master.” It made me smile. I leave it to others to determine its suitability for the SoV. Miss you, buddy!

C3V "Easily the best quality classic customs I have ever seen."
Designing Customs? Help With Wurdz
= =
Reply With Quote
  #4341  
Old September 17th, 2020, 11:05 PM
Dysole's Avatar
Dysole Dysole is offline
PuppetMaster & #2 Ranked CoNner
 
Join Date: March 17, 2008
Location: Oregon Eugeneish area
Posts: 16,419
Images: 262
Dysole is a wielder of the Ban Hammer Dysole is a wielder of the Ban Hammer Dysole is a wielder of the Ban Hammer Dysole is a wielder of the Ban Hammer Dysole is a wielder of the Ban Hammer Dysole is a wielder of the Ban Hammer Dysole is a wielder of the Ban Hammer Dysole is a wielder of the Ban Hammer Dysole is a wielder of the Ban Hammer Dysole is a wielder of the Ban Hammer Dysole is a wielder of the Ban Hammer Dysole is a wielder of the Ban Hammer Dysole is a wielder of the Ban Hammer Dysole is a wielder of the Ban Hammer Dysole is a wielder of the Ban Hammer
2 Cents

I love Minion as a class.

~Dysole, watching the rest unfold





DYSOLE IS HIVELORD THE ADORABLE MARRDEN NAGRUB...IN
THE ENEMY'S LAST RETREAT

Reply With Quote
  #4342  
Old September 18th, 2020, 10:35 AM
Scytale's Avatar
Scytale Scytale is offline
Thanksgiving Custom Contest Champion
 
Join Date: August 25, 2006
Location: USA - MN - Rochester
Posts: 9,678
Images: 469
Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth
Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Quote:
Originally Posted by NecroBlade View Post
In addition to adding a small Ranged option to the faction, the other reason is it gives him something to do on an order marker other than position the Nexus.
A single attack at Range 4 of Attack 3 isn't worth an order marker until cleanup. Positioning Nexus has a little added value, but definitely not worth putting Mindless Pack Whatever at risk.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NecroBlade View Post
I find the suggestion of making him a Thrall interesting in that I suspect if he had been a Thrall from the beginning there would have been a lot of push back to adding a sudden strong bonding option to the otherwise mediocre group. I'm honestly much more interested in a balanced non-bonding option (as I've tried to supporcort elsewhere ) because there are ways to expand factions and faction synergy beyond "yet another bonding option".

Elbad being a Thrall does not concern me in terms of power. As an uncommon hero, definitely, but as a unique I think it's fine. A single attack of 3 at low range is a nice addition, but not overpowering by any means. And it's not like the Thralls are shaking up the meta.

I certainly appreciate the idea of trying to do a non-bonding addition, though. From here I think you have two potential directions:

1) Accept the design for what it is, a figure that sits back in the starting zone and gives a helpful boost. Nexus likely needs to be dropped as not useful, though there may be rare cases where spawning back in the starting zone is preferable.

2) Force a reason to put him near the front lines. For example, have Mindless Pack Whatever only work if all activated Thralls are with 6 clear sight spaces of Elbad. Or give him a handy stat boost aura for Thralls or Undead. Or higher offensive output. (I'd suggest added defensive strength, but I don't think that would make a difference. Still not worth putting order markers on, and nothing with a cheerleader boost like Mindless Pack Whatever will be used as a defender, regardless of stats.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by NecroBlade View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scytale View Post
I don't like the class Champion. It's a very broad term so I can't deny it outright, but it doesn't feel right for the design.
I was trying to find an official class that suited him. Perhaps Sorcerer, or Minion (the only other one of either)?
Sorcerer seems a little too "good" for a thrall. Minion is pretty good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NecroBlade View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scytale View Post
I don't like the term "Necro-assistant." It's descriptive for what you want as a concept, but it sounds kinda lame to me, to be blunt. I'd like it better as a class than a name, oddly enough.
Did Necro-Mage Elbad strike you as any better? That wouldn't work with "Sorcerer" as the class, but might with "Minion". Or maybe carve out a new "Mage", a step down from Sonlen.
I like Necro-Mage.
Reply With Quote
  #4343  
Old Yesterday, 09:16 AM
NecroBlade's Avatar
NecroBlade NecroBlade is offline
"our design team knows what it's doing"
 
Join Date: November 22, 2006
Location: KY - Shepherdsville
Posts: 20,766
Images: 133
Blog Entries: 21
NecroBlade is a man of the cloth NecroBlade is a man of the cloth NecroBlade is a man of the cloth NecroBlade is a man of the cloth NecroBlade is a man of the cloth NecroBlade is a man of the cloth NecroBlade is a man of the cloth NecroBlade is a man of the cloth NecroBlade is a man of the cloth NecroBlade is a man of the cloth NecroBlade is a man of the cloth NecroBlade is a man of the cloth NecroBlade is a man of the cloth NecroBlade is a man of the cloth NecroBlade is a man of the cloth
Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper View Post
I love Elbad the Igor, @NecroBlade . “Yes, master.” It made me smile. I leave it to others to determine its suitability for the SoV. Miss you, buddy!
Glad to hear Elbad is working on some level for so many. I'm sure my occasional unsolicited commentary remedies that last part somewhat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dysole View Post
I love Minion as a class.

~Dysole, watching the rest unfold
Now that I've posted it, I do, too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scytale View Post
I certainly appreciate the idea of trying to do a non-bonding addition, though. From here I think you have two potential directions:

1) Accept the design for what it is, a figure that sits back in the starting zone and gives a helpful boost. Nexus likely needs to be dropped as not useful, though there may be rare cases where spawning back in the starting zone is preferable.

2) Force a reason to put him near the front lines. For example, have Mindless Pack Whatever only work if all activated Thralls are with 6 clear sight spaces of Elbad. Or give him a handy stat boost aura for Thralls or Undead. Or higher offensive output. (I'd suggest added defensive strength, but I don't think that would make a difference. Still not worth putting order markers on, and nothing with a cheerleader boost like Mindless Pack Whatever will be used as a defender, regardless of stats.)
1) Would limit Elbad to Thrall armies only, which doesn't work, IMO.
2) Seems doable. Technically makes him a little weaker, but certainly gives the power a chance to shine.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Scytale View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by NecroBlade View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scytale View Post
I don't like the class Champion. It's a very broad term so I can't deny it outright, but it doesn't feel right for the design.
I was trying to find an official class that suited him. Perhaps Sorcerer, or Minion (the only other one of either)?
Sorcerer seems a little too "good" for a thrall. Minion is pretty good.
Good, seems to be consensus on that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scytale View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by NecroBlade View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scytale View Post
I don't like the term "Necro-assistant." It's descriptive for what you want as a concept, but it sounds kinda lame to me, to be blunt. I'd like it better as a class than a name, oddly enough.
Did Necro-Mage Elbad strike you as any better? That wouldn't work with "Sorcerer" as the class, but might with "Minion". Or maybe carve out a new "Mage", a step down from Sonlen.
I like Necro-Mage.
Great. Let's put all that together...



While I was making edits, I also came up with an alternative wording for Necromantic Nexus that expands the power a little (balancing the slight nerf to Mindless Pack Command in a way). Now if you manage to squeeze Elbad in with multiple Esenweins, they can all benefit from his magic. Cyprien + Sonya? Marcu alongside a more expensive sibling? Heck, even with just Elbad and Nicholas you gain 5 additional spaces adjacent to Nicholas to place Thralls. Let me know what you think! (I liked the card I first posted, now I think I really love it.)


Arena of the Valkyire - Help create Heroscape's next Master Set!
317-149
C3V Brainstorm
Pepperony - 14/09/13
Reply With Quote
  #4344  
Old Yesterday, 01:24 PM
Scytale's Avatar
Scytale Scytale is offline
Thanksgiving Custom Contest Champion
 
Join Date: August 25, 2006
Location: USA - MN - Rochester
Posts: 9,678
Images: 469
Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth
Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Mindless Pack Command is a nice improvement in that it makes Elbad a necessarily more dynamic figure, but it might have slipped into "too difficult/weak to be worth the effort" territory. Playtesting will tell. The big question will be, is it better to spend points and order markers to position Elbad, or are you better off just focusing on the Thralls instead?

I think the change to Nexus is a mistake. The power went from one where you want Elbad in a good position, to one where it's better to leave Elbad in the starting zone. It's a (not all that useful) ability buy for your other Undead that doesn't require Elbad to do anything at all.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Heroscapers > Custom HeroScape Creations > Custom Units & Army Cards
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
C3G Dredd'verse workshop Tornado C3G Project 988 July 30th, 2020 05:37 PM
MiniatureGeek's Custom Workshop #1 Miniature Geek Other Customization & HS Additions 14 August 20th, 2009 10:37 PM
Sci Fi Terrain by Games Workshop RichardD Custom Terrain & Obstacles 12 August 4th, 2009 02:38 PM
Bad_Calvin's Workshop - update 4-7 bad_calvin Custom Terrain & Obstacles 54 June 5th, 2009 09:09 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:27 AM.

Heroscape background footer

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.