Russia Georgia Conflict

[Roland]

...almost two decades after the crumble of a huge communist power a war erupts. A small separatist force asks for assistance form this once great country to help separate it from a smaller, lesser known province. Tanks roll in civilians are slaughtered, a cease fire is announced yet the bullets continue to fly. Another major world power steps up to the plate to try and resolve it, yet plans to place a major military installation in a controversial country. Subjecting a peaceful nation to war. Behind the scenes a leader is prodded into action by another, decisions are made and war looms on the horizon.


This is what happened in the past week or two in Georgia, a small country just South of Russia. When a separatist group called for action, Russia came to save the day. The cease fire was announced a few days ago yet the battles raged on in the streets of Georgia, and today a cease fire agreement was signed by the Georgian President. Russia ultimately told the US now was the time to choose, Russia or Georgia. In the end Georgia received the support needed and it looks like Russia and the US are reverting to a period known as the Cold War.


In the mean time the US has begun talk of establishing an anti missile base in Poland. The same Poland that was invaded in the beginning of World War II, that was controlled by the USSR until 1989, the threat on this peaceful country will be raised exponentially.

[Mr Migraine]

Countdown to 2012....

[Onion Knight]

Russia invaded Georgia??? Well, there goes the price of peaches.


Seriously,

I still haven't heard of what, EXACTLY, Georgia did to provoke Russia. I know that Ossentia was acting up and they went in to smack them around a little, but from my understanding, why would Georgia care if Ossentia wanted to become part of Russia again? What am I missing?

[Dennys]

Because loss of south ossetia essentially cuts georgia in half.

[loborocket]

Originally Posted by Onion Knight

why would Georgia care if Ossentia wanted to become part of Russia again? What am I missing?

I believe there is a vital oil pipeline there. Russia wants control over the pipeline. russai gave the people in the Ossentia Russian citizenship if they wanted it so they would have a reason to "liberate" them from Georgia. Just happens they (the Russians) would gain control over this oil pipeline in the process.

[Onion Knight]

Originally Posted by loborocket

I believe there is a vital oil pipeline there. Russia wants control over the pipeline. russai gave the people in the Ossentia Russian citizenship if they wanted it so they would have a reason to "liberate" them from Georgia. Just happens they (the Russians) would gain control over this oil pipeline in the process.

Hmmm...

I think I'm gonna have to go for Georgia then. Thanks Dennys and Loborocket!

See, this stuff ain't so complicated.

[SuperflyTNT]

Oil and natural gas pipelines.

Here's the long and short: South Ossetia was historically part of the Georgian state, but ethnically it considered itself Russian. For years they've been trying to secede from Georgia and rejoin the motherland, but Georgia didn't want that, so for the past 2 months they've been 'skirmishing' with the Ossetian militia, and on Aug. 7th the Georgians 'invaded' them. The Russians had a peacekeeping envoy there to keep an eye on Russian interests, and some got in the middle and got blown up/shot/dismembered. The Ossetian government called up the Russians, who were more than happy to oblige. This is when the crap hit the blender.

The Russians quickly rolled in, and kept on going into Georgian territory (although technically they were always there - South Ossetia is still Georgia, technically).

The really short: This is Russia intervening in a civil war where one province of a state is trying to secede.

According to 'international law', Georgia had the right to subjugate it's peoples just as we did in the American Civil War, and Russia did what France did during our civil war, but Russia overstepped their lines by attacking undisputed Georgian territory, and then heading to Tblisi, the capital of Georgia. Had the Russkies NOT done that and kept on the Ossetian side, there would not be an international outcry.

This would be like Montreal trying to secede from Canada and become a French Colony, the Canadian military going in and bombing them, and them calling France for help - THEN - French fighter-bombers attacking Toronto while moving troops into Nova Scotia, BC, and Calgary.

THE POLISH PROBLEM:
I can't believe that 10 interceptors have a whole lot of ooomph against Russia's 2000+ ICBMs, and that the placement of those interceptors are what's making the US and Russia hate each other again. The problem here with the whole deal is that interceptors are in opposition to the Reagan/Gorby Nuclear Arms reduction treaty limiting the amount of interceptors in the hands of the 2 parties. They kind-of have a right to be pissed. That, and we've been pissing in Russia's corn flakes pretty much everywhere we go - the UN, N. Korea, Eastern Europe (Romania, Latvia....) and most recently when we invaded Iraq and told them to kiss off, essentially.

Technically, the Cold War never truly ended - it just took a hiatus since the USSR collapsed under it's own weight. The rivalry between the US and the new Russia has always been there, and they've always had enmity since we whooped them in the arms race. At the end of the day, Russia and the US will always be on the opposite side of most issues since we have competing interests.

Like Kissinger often quoted Lord Palmerston, “Nations have no permanent friends or allies, they only have permanent interests.”

[Chimpy]

Originally Posted by Onion Knight

Russia invaded Georgia??? Well, there goes the price of peaches.


Seriously,

I still haven't heard of what, EXACTLY, Georgia did to provoke Russia. I know that Ossentia was acting up and they went in to smack them around a little, but from my understanding, why would Georgia care if Ossentia wanted to become part of Russia again? What am I missing?

The subjugation of the breakaway provinces of South Ossetia and Abkhazia are a matter of national pride to the Georgians. A large amount of President Saakshivli's support comes from the fact that he said he would restore constitutional order to the said rebel provinces by the time he left office.

The Russians support both separatist causes. Indeed, they have stationed peace keepers in both provinces for just short of ten years. When the Georgians decided they would restore constitutional order by means of artillery fire, many a Russian citizen lay in harms way. Understandably, the Russians protected both their own citizens and the rights of the South Ossetians with their military campaign.

I imagine if the U.S. was put into a similar situation (say the bombardment of Kosovo by Serbian forces) our reaction would be quite similar. Where the Russians crossed the line is in their decision to escalate the conflict with large scale attacks on Georgia proper. Simply put, there was no justification for the destruction of the Georgian navy, the bombardment of Tblisi, or the occupation of cities far away from the front. (I.E. Koti.) For this, Russia deserves to be heavily criticized and reprimanded.

~Chimpy

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[SimpleGreen24]

i think Russia should get out of Georgia or the U.S will come and sonner or later


BOOM !!!!

[Roland]

No! We are in Iraq, Afghanistan, and have eyes on North Korea and Iran, the second we do any thing to Russia, the repercussions will be catastrophic, and they understand this and are relishing in it.

On top of that the US already has a degrading reputation in the eyes of foreign countries as far as our foreign policies are concerned, and in my honest opinion, violence only breeds more violence. We need to create peace through peace and treaties, and try acting in htat manner instead of with our weapons

[Ugly-Caco]

Originally Posted by Mr Migraine

Countdown to 2012....

Dec 21 2012 'er we go!!!

[Armydillo978]

Originally Posted by Roland

No! We are in Iraq, Afghanistan, and have eyes on North Korea and Iran, the second we do any thing to Russia, the repercussions will be catastrophic, and they understand this and are relishing in it.


On top of that the US already has a degrading reputation in the eyes of foreign countries as far as our foreign policies are concerned, and in my honest opinion, violence only breeds more violence. We need to create peace through peace and treaties, and try acting in htat manner instead of with our weapons

I don't believe that worked out too well for Nevile Chamberlin and his friends. Treaties are only good if everyone honors them and once dishonored, you sometimes have to fight to get things back in line. The American people are looked upon fondly around the world, it's the image that our President and Govt project that some of the world's other people don't like. Russia has been bullying Eastern Europe for a few decades now and I really don't think we have to worry about outdoing Russian for title of "King Jerk Country".