The Book of Taelord the Kyrie Warrior

[drumtooth]

Taelord
Minions x2
Syvaris
500

[Acinonyx]

How about Zeta, with height and Taelord? 4 ranged attack counting double... Yikes! If I'm figuring this right, that would have a ~10% chance of wrecking Q9 with 1 shot (averaging 2.16 wounds with ~10% chance of 4+).

[Soul Shackle]

If you ask all the members of this site which one figure is more overcosted than any other figure, you'll probably get a "Taelord" in unison (with some faint "Taro" in the distance). There are plenty of ways to remedy this situation. Adding Deadly Strike seems like a nice thought, though his attack would have to be decreased from 3 to 2. Taelord has his uses, though, even at 180 points. He's great with the Omnicrons, Minions, and Zetacron. He may be such a powerful boost for those units alone he has to be 180 points. At any rate, whether he should add Deadly Strike, have higher defense, bond, or cost 150, I'm willing to Embrace the Suck.

[KCU Master 2007]

I really don't understand why everybody insists that Taelord is overpriced. I mean, sure he costs 180 points and, let's face it, that is a lot of points. He costs more than any other Kyrie hero (more than twice as much than the mighty Raelin) and he costs as much as Major Q9.

Taelord will not kill his points worth. Accept it. However, pair him with Raelin to boost his defense to a very formidable 5. Throw in some range (Syvarris, Zetacron, even the Krav) and you have a very formidable force.

I finished 2nd going 4-1 recently at a Uniques only tournament and I took:
Taelord
Raelin
Krav
Syvarris
Zetacron

With such long range you don't really have to move either of you Kyrie and when you do, if you do it smart, you can keep you whole pod together and protected. The only problem I had with it is if you want to make a quick counter strike. You are forced to leave both auras with somebody (Kravs are the best option I think). Also, if you're making a counter strike, odds are you just killed a very powerful figure and/or crippled their army.

Feel free to disagree.

[Simpsons Scaper]

KCU Master, I agree 110%! I draft Taelord a TON with Kravs and Omnicrons. Also, he works well with the Tagawa as a melee combo (3 Bloodlust Markers w/Taelord=7 attack).

[KCU Master 2007]

I don't like using him in melee as much because it puts him in striking distance of to many figures. I rarely use him with the minions. I have a couple times with decent results. However, I know my first 600 point tournament army:

Taelord - 180
2x Minions - 400
2x Omnicrons - 600

Minions play meat shields then switch to clean up units. Omnicrons backed by Taelord can take on anything, heros or otherwise. If a hero or such ventures to close switch to Minions and make them pay.

[Junge Roman]

One thing I just noticed about Taelord, while preparing for the DFW team tournament, is that he only helps figures you control. For 180 points, it seems like he could buff all friendly figures (like Concan), so he could relocate and still allow an offensive move on the same order marker. Anyway, I know teams aren't the primary focus, but they did have the friendly/you control concept from the beginning.

[winonavampire]

Although this army isn't original, I decided to play a Taelord based army after reading this thread.:

Taelord 180
Minions of Utgar x2 220
Omnicrom Snipers 100

Total: 500

During and after playing this army, I actually felt a little dirty. (That also might have something to do with the Common Attack +1 that I flipped (random face down).

Omnicroms rolling 4 dice from height with the Minions rolling 4-5 dice based on height was just sick and stupid.

Don't get my wrong, Taelord is ridiculously expensive and I won't use him much if often, but tonight... he was just stupid and I would be afraid... literally afraid if he was any cheaper.

I think his price is not balanced against what he can do himself, but to keep too much else out of your army.

Anyway, I do agree with everyone, he is incredibly expensive, but I think if he was any cheaper he would get out of line.

Finally, I know this is Taelords book, but, does anyone think the Minions are undercosted? They are so freaking good with out Taelord, but with him they are also just stupid.

[spidysox]

I managed to win a tournament the other day running an army with Taelord.

I had Tae, 4x Stingers, Zettians and Isamu.

The Stingers backed by Tae's aura were machines. I was able to get height most every time and was attacking with 5 dice every time. On the rare occasions that I felt it necessary, I got Stinger drain and was attacking with 6 dice!

I managed to go 4-0 and took first in the tournament!

In the right combo's Taelord's aura can be devestating (he actually got into the battle a couple of times himself). But he needs the right combo's to be successful and to make it worth his cost.

[Xn F M]

After reading mccombju's post earlier this morning over in the 500pt army thread and zcythe's Using Deathreavers for Offence? thread I got to thinking about Taelord and Taelord based armies.

Now I'm of the opinion that Taelord is not overpriced, he just costs too much to fit into most armies. This got me thinking about what low-cost squads he might work well with. I started running through the list of cheap ranged units in my head: Arrow Gruts? Nope, Swogs are better. Repulors? That just sounds terrible (though as we all know he's pretty good with the snipers that go with them). Then I started thinking about Ashigaru Harquebus. They're cheap, they hit pretty hard, and they have a point cost that compliments Tealord's. I came up with an army that I think might be able to do pretty well (it's going on my list to test that's for sure).

Edit: As Aldin kindly (as awlays) pointed out, I mis-remembered the point cost on the A.Harquebus. I've corrected the army below to reflect this, as well as added another.

180 Taelord
300 Ashigaru Harquebusx2
420 Deathreavers x3
500 Raelin (RotV)


While enhancing 240 points of rats and ashigaru with 260 points of chearleaders doesn't sound like the best idea, haveing Taelord and Raelin with the ashigaru essentially gives you 4th mass with +1 attack that can be combined with a rat screen. And if you think about it, you're playing 90pts less for ashigaru over 4th, so even after you add Raelin, you're saving ten points. And you have the option of using your rats in melee with +1 attack.

This may be a terrible idea in practice, but to me anyway, it looks pretty good on paper.

Edit: bonus army:

180 Taelord
360 Ashigaru Harquebus x3
480 Rats x3
(drop an ashigaru)

This army was the second fix I came up with for the incorrectly costed Ashigaru. I'm a little more comfortable having (almost) three squads of Ashigaru, however that one defense is a little scary. I wouldn't reccomend this version unless you want to prove that you have a pair.

[mccombju]

A similar idea to Xn F M's has been employed by Onacara with the 10th Reg.

10th Reg x3 - 225
Marcus Decimus Gallus - 100
Raelin - 80
Dumutef Guard x4 - 100
------------------------------
505 Points, 22 Hexes

Onacara went 4-1 with this army. From what I gather from Onacara's posts, the inclusion of the Dumutef was based largely on the fact that most (~>50%) maps in the tournament had road tiles to take advantage of the Dumutef's terrain-specific attack and defensive bonus. MDG not only boosts the 10th's move but can also provide a +1A adjacent soldier attack bonus.

Arguably better variant armies are as follows:

10th Reg x3 - 225
Marcus Decimus Gallus - 100
Raelin - 80
Roman Legionnaires x2 - 100
------------------------------
505 Points, 22 Hexes

and

10th Reg x3 - 225
Marcus Decimus Gallus - 100
Raelin - 80
Deathreavers x2 - 80
Isamu - 10
------------------------------
495 Points, 23 Hexes

The Legionnaire army affords easier positioning of MDG to take advantage of his soldier attack bonus. A 500 point variant that uses the Roman Legionnaires is the following army.

4th Mass x3 - 210
Marcus Decimus Gallus - 100
Raelin - 80
Roman Legionnaires x2 - 100
------------------------------
490 Points, 22 Hexes

The benefit of this army when compared to the one proposed by Xn F M is that instead of a 3rd squad of Deathreavers you have a 3rd squad of potentially boosted 4th Mass.

However, the main point in the Taelord armies listed by myself and others was to take advantage of the attack power (and durability) of 2A (or 3A on height) Deathreavers. The soldier armies with MDG have a ranged attack bonus but forgo the attack benefit afforded to the Deathreavers.

[Myst9]

I believe I know why Taelord "costs so much." I recently did some testing for Raelin, and ended up inding info for both her and Taelord. I rolled attack dice over and over for various attack rates (100 times for 3-4 attack, 50 times for 6-8 attack) and for defence rates (100 times for 3-5, 50 times for 1, 2, 6-. I looked especially at 3-4 attack (attack 3, add Taelord=attack 4) and 3-5 defence (defense 3, add Raelin=defence 5). Looking at the following, I found that Raelin's and Taelord's stat boosting abilites are about the same.

Defence
3 dice=25% chance of blanking, 42% of 1 shield, 33% 2-3 shields (26% 2 shields). Thus, mainly 1 shield for 3 defence dice.

5 dice=16% chance of blanking, 27% 1 shield, 32% 2 shields, 25% 3-4, no chance of 5 shields. Thus, mainly 2 shields, but low blanking and good chance of lots of shields (mainly 3).

Attack
3 dice=16% chance of blanking, 31% 1 skull, 42% 2 skulls, 11% 3 skulls. Thus, mainly 2 skulls, low chance blanking.

4 dice=1% chance of blanking, 24% 1 skull, 44% 2 skulls, 31% 3-4 skulls. Thus, mainly 2 skulls, "no" chance blanking, high chance high skulls (mainly 3).

Compare
defence: -9% blanking, +6% 2 shields, +18% high-roll (or +11% 3 shields).

attack: -15% blanking, +2% 2 shields, +20% high-roll (or +11% 3 shields).

Increasing attack by 1 is about the same as increasing defence by 2, but is slightly better, as can be predicted by study of the cards and the chances of getting skulls as opposed to shields.

Concidering Raelin's and Taelord's identical stats and Taelord's Stealth Flying. Conclusion: Taelord is worth Raelin's 80 points, plus ~5-10 points stealth? and ~10-15 points "advanced" defensive aura. So, that makes Taelord 95-105 points. So what about the remaining 75-85 points?

Attack is more valuable than defense. Therefore, even if the two auras had an identical effect, Taelord's would be worth more. Allow me to explain. The purpose of defense is to keep the status quo; protection against your piece being removed and the board being changed. The purpose of attack is to change the status quo in favor of the acting player. This change is what the game is about. It removes the threat and the effects of the figure. Without attack, this change could not happen. Defense will only hold up for so long, and it is difficult to make it sufficient. If you get a bad roll for defense, that's the end for most figures. That is an error that cannot be taken back. If you get a bad roll for attack, there is no effect. It can be the game-defining roll, but the implcations are not as bad as a bad defense roll. After all, the bad game-defining attack roll just mentioned is not so bad if you can block the opponent's next attack; the bad defense roll is truly what is feared, not the bad attack roll; the bad attack roll is feared beacause one is afraid their defense will not hold up...and eventually, it will not. When defense does fail, the implications are bad; when attack fails, nothing changes. No matter how high your defense is, it will fail eventually; look at Q9 and 9000. It's the attack, not the defense, you can rely on.

Conclusion:
Taelord's cost:
Raelin (80 points), +~10 points or Stealth Flying, +~15 points for greater aura, +~20 points for aura (including better than Raelin's) revolving around attack (which is better than defense), +~15 points for potential (such as boosting the Omnicrons and giving them exceptional attack); this equals ~140 points. Taelord's attack boost has a greater effect than Raelin's defense boost. Attack is much more important than defense. Plus, Taelord has Stealth Flying. All these things considered, Taelord is worth 180 points or just a little less.

Overall, Taelord may plausibly be worth 180 points, especially depending on how you use him (possibly, I overlooked some things that would add more points to Taelord than ~140). But even if not, he is not as expensive as he seems to be made out.