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C3V and SoV Customs A place for C3V and SoV customs |
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#4357
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion
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Clearly there is some misunderstanding and miscommunication right there. The problem is that the SoV review takes to much time. And if it's a no it's a complete waste of time as judges don't do nothing to improve the custom. Either the SoV judges just give a sceal of approval, then this have to be waaaaaaay faster (I don't think 6 judges are needed, to me 3 is enough, it's just my pov). Either SoV is part of improving the custom as long as it passes first review, then they can take one year but they should give help to the custom creator. But as what it is now it's more something like: judge: "I reviewed your custom and sorry this is a no" customer: "ho I totally forgot about this guy" |
#4358
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion
There's no miscommunication. At least, not between myself and Cap. If you think there is a worthy candidate unit that is being overlooked, then feel free to nominate it. Others have done so.
If you feel like a group should be workshopping units, and working publicly and quickly, as a group, to improve them, and if you feel like that would lead to something good for the hobby and it isn't being done, then start it. Be the change you want to see. Nothing is stopping you. |
#4359
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion
Could it be that SoV and C3V take a long time because they treat what they do as "serious stuff?"
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#4360
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion
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Making a good unit takes time. It just does. The SoV is not about making a list of "good ideas" as you call them. It's about making available truly excellent custom units. No one here can change the fact that good customs take a lot of time and effort. If you want to make a great custom unit, you are going to have to be willing to be in it for the long haul--to commit time and effort, to ask for people to playtest your ideas, and really listen to hard criticism--and then to come to the SoV with a well crafted, fully finished design. New? Read this. | The INDEX 2.0 | Mmirg's Maps Magnify Your Scape: BoV | SoV | C3V (Playtest!) | C3G The Dice Tower Con w/ Scape! |
#4361
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion
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I frequently encourage and aid designers in "remodels" of their units. Jarek Guy's resubmission was a result of such encouragement and Rorschack/Rampage was another. I have encouraged @robbdaman to tweak Gor'Vath and @Son of Arathorn to tweak Kar-Nu-Sa, as well as encouraging various community members to rework the Gatekeepers. In each case I not only encouraged them to rework but I offered specific suggestions about what could be different. I simply don't play Heroscape often enough to test the SoV units AND test other units enough by myself to feel they are ready. It was difficult to make time for al'Kahora and has been impossible to find time for other units I wanted to submit. Formerly known as capsocrates -- Remixed Master Sets - challenge yourself with new terrain combinations! -- Colorado Fall 2023 Multiplayer Madness -- caps's Customs Redux - caps's multiplayer maps - caps's maps - Seagate -- Continuing Classic Heroscape: C3V SoV |
#4362
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion
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That's why I am "upset". Quote:
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We were working on a 3rd card to submit (goblin unique squad to make the HSB+Goblin army playable) it was starting to be good but we got bored up because having his custom accepted takes too much time. And by the time it takes the units may not be still avalaible enough. Also we stopped working on Kheris after he had a NO as we still don't understand what was precisely the problem and we didn't know what to change without changing the original nature of the custom. So we choosed to not resubmit him and to keep him as he is. Last edited by Foudzing; November 12th, 2014 at 02:55 PM. |
#4363
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion
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Also, enormous praise and credit to @Scytale , who has been working very hard to bring down the amount of time it takes a unit to get through the SoV process. It still take a long time, but it's faster than it was. And I don't expect it will ever be truly fast. Let's see how quickly you guys turn out maps in the Wargrounds of Scape thread - which has seen no posts in a month - because you wouldn't want to look too foolish for failing to deliver the service you are insisting upon here. As I understand the raison d'etre of that group - your group - it is that testing can and should be done expeditiously. Well, if you are living in a glass house... |
#4364
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion
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Also it's not my group, Dok asked me to be a judge I accepted, as simple as that. Just for your ignorance: if I fail to deliver my reviews within 4 months I am no longer a judge. Maybe you should consider instauring such a thing in SoV. I have until mid January to do 2 more reviews, I should be fine. Thank you for your motivation speech. |
#4365
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion
I'd just like to say that I am extremely appreciative of the SoV judges, who take a large amount of time out of their lives to do this for completely free.
@Foudzing , I am sure the judges would like things to move as fast as you would like them to. However, I am also sure a vast majority of the people who work hard to get high quality customs through VC also have lives outside of Heroscape. They have jobs, school, family, etc. |
#4366
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion
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Changing the system to work with creators to find a way to make nearly any custom work is a fun thought, but it would be both impractical and damaging. First, have you seen how many custom creators there are on the site? If each one submitted one idea, how much work would we be stuck with? Look at how much time and effort has gone in to the development of the Kobolds in the Boot Camp thread. How many hundreds of such unit concepts would we have to go through that process with? It is also true that not everything should find its way into Fanscape. There are constant discussions in the Inner Sanctum about what should be allowed into canon and what not; we must consider the future of the game. Quote:
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The problem here isn't the system itself; the system allows for all sorts of units. The problem, as you see it, is the fault of everyone, including yourself. If you want to see a custom enter the system, adopt it, solicit input, modify it, thoroughly test it, and submit it. Don't blame us if you fail to do so. |
#4367
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion
Foudzing, There is nothing in your post that I am not aware of already. I may be ignorant of some things, but nothing in your post specifically was news to me.
Wargrounds is your group in that you share responsibility for its productivity. We are all - in the C3V, the SoV, the WoS, and the other groups, too - sharing responsibility for productivity. I am also aware that your bylaws mandate productivity by the judges. And yet. . . Where are you, as a group? Four total votes? I am utterly indifferent to where you are as an individual tester. The SoV judges have tested different numbers of units, at different speeds. Yet the group is judged by its overall productivity, as it should be. It's hard, Foudzing. Group projects, particularly those with high standards, are hard. We do the best we can. The critique that the SoV is slow is fair, and would be equally true if you had leveled it against the C3V. It is slow! We all do the best we can do. If that's good enough for you, fine, if not, that's ok too. Feel free to start your own group, or participate in a group started by someone else, or keep adding your (same) , or whatever you please. Last edited by Dad_Scaper; November 12th, 2014 at 03:20 PM. Reason: scytale ninja! |
#4368
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion
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Also, really D_S, 12 days into the month you come up with "no posts this month"? Don't quit your day job, because I think you're probably good at it. FWIW, the WoS rules clearly lay out a 4-month judging period for a map - any map that has not been voted up or down by that period is evaluated based on the votes it has already received. WoS has existed for two months now, so the first three submitted maps are now halfway through their prescribed maximum judging period. Based on internal discussions I know that several of the thus-far silent judges have played games on the maps up for review, but are taking their time to put out a vote... within the four month window. Quote:
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I wouldn't presume to know what the best approach for SoV judging is - custom designs are not the same as custom maps. But the defined maximum judging period seems (so far) like a good model for WoS. If you think I'm wrong, I'd suggest you withhold judgement until the end of the first round of voting. |
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