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Custom Units & Army Cards Fan-created HS army cards for units, glyphs, and equipment |
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#109
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Re: Astro's Custom Units [Update 9/30/18]
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Range 5, Attack 3. Limit scope to one or two adjacent figures on each blast. I'd think 150 is probably a minimum for this type of attack though. Remove its long range attack, it is okay to be a one trick pony. And part of the power check is that he has to get into range to deliver his payload. I like the suggest of a strong close range attack, a Foot stomp attack, and raise up its defense to 6. I don't care much for Raised Chassis, i'd ditch it. It doesn't do much for the card. Just my free-form thoughts on the figure. Have you tried Hexscape? 3D Heroscape Multiplayer Battle program! Looking for a C3V/SOV miniature? Try one of these sites. |
#110
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Re: Astro's Custom Units [Update 9/30/18]
I think forcing him to use uncontrollable explosions is very Valkrill. I wouldn’t limit their size because the madness is part of the unit’s charm.
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#111
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Re: Astro's Custom Units [Update 9/30/18]
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Lowering the special range to 5 could be alright, though I don't think that 150 is a minimum. Othkurik is only 140, and he has 5 life, a bonding squad, 6 move, and flying, which drastically improves his utility, and mobility. Lowering the base attack range could be okay, but Melee opens up Hoplitron Bonding, which I think should be avoided. But that's just me, maybe Astroking is alright with it. I am indifferent to Raised Chassis. I don't think it makes enough of a difference with or without, to to worry about, and it adds a bit of flavor to the card. My Custom Designs.
--------------- Check out my maps. --------------- Get general Valkrill's symbol in SVG vector format. |
#112
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Re: Astro's Custom Units [Update 9/30/18]
Othkuriks range is much shorter on his special, and only has one of them. A bonding squad can always show up for a unit, so the idea of that doesn't mean much for me.
You are just not going to get me to agree with double explosions as it is written. I am but one vote in the VC, but it would be a nay for me. You can choose to feel I am the minority and that enough will vote it through. Anyways these are my concerns. Have you tried Hexscape? 3D Heroscape Multiplayer Battle program! Looking for a C3V/SOV miniature? Try one of these sites. |
#113
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Re: Astro's Custom Units [Update 9/30/18]
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That said, it has been very enjoy able going back an forth with you. The internet doesn't have many places left where you can do that, without things getting nasty. My Custom Designs.
--------------- Check out my maps. --------------- Get general Valkrill's symbol in SVG vector format. |
#114
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Re: Astro's Custom Units [Update 9/30/18]
Kinseth and I have agreed on many other points in the last, I am sure. But it is remarkable to me in this instance how completely I disagree with everything he has had to say about this unit.
This is faster than quoting all his statements and saying I disagree with them. *Without having played it* I think this unit is remarkably close. I do not like the idea of a melee attack. I don't think it fits the mini, and hoplitron bonding introduces other issues. A ranged attack of 2 seems unnecessarily low. For a machine gun, a range of 8 also seems unnecessarily high. Thus my proposal of a R7,A3 normal attack. An alternative idea would be a R5,A4 normal attack. Formerly known as capsocrates -- Remixed Master Sets - challenge yourself with new terrain combinations! -- Colorado Fall 2023 Multiplayer Madness -- caps's Customs Redux - caps's multiplayer maps - caps's maps - Seagate -- Continuing Classic Heroscape: C3V SoV |
#115
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Re: Astro's Custom Units [Update 9/30/18]
Thanks again to everyone for the continued feedback on M.A.R.S.! Here's some responses:
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I know that this was a point of concern for you (and has already been discussed further in this thread), but M.A.R.S.' missile pods are each on swivels and could even be physically twisted to face in opposite directions. There's also the prospect of homing missiles changing direction in mid-air, which I think is reasonable enough for HeroScape. Of course, one could argue that it feels weird to have him be able to perform a 360-degree turn and lock on to two opposite targets before firing, but I'm not convinced that this is a theme break big enough to warrant adding text and complexity to the power. Quote:
I think that you've got an interesting set of suggestions here, and I actually really like your interpretation of Raised Chassis. I may tinker around with adding that to his design if it doesn't significantly throw his balance off. I'm not as big of a fan of the different Special Attack, though. I like how it simulates having a lock-on to several different targets, but I feel like the dual-explosions is a simpler interpretation. I know you mentioned "blastiness creep," but I think that the two explosions are at the heart of this design and that with some modifications to the rest of the card (mostly to heavily encourage him to always use his explosion), it can have a different feel from DW9k's normal SA. Quote:
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I may also toy around with a shorter normal attack, but typically the long range has been one of the highlights that people mention after using him. Especially with the slow move, I think it adds something to the design. Quote:
I agree on the analysis of targeting figures in different directions, as I stated earlier in this post. Combined with how rare this situation should be, I don't want to design extra limitations solely based around it. I'm hesitant to have the rolls separated, though. One of the reasons that I combined both rolls into one was to make it clearer that all figures are affected by the same attack, instead of it being a double-attack. Distinguishing between which figures are affected by which portion of the attack sounds like a rules headache and doesn't seem like something that the original designers would've done. Quote:
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I'm going to need to keep the long-ranged normal attack to avoid Hoplitron Bonding, but I agree that turning him into somewhat of a one-trick pony will make him more exciting. Hopefully decreasing the attack to 2 is enough to accomplish this. I agree on ditching Raised Chassis. Scytale made a great reworked version of the power, but I think I'm just going to go for the simple approach and have his only power be the Special Attack. Quote:
That said, I also want to keep the normal attack below 4. I could see going up to 3 dice at 6 range or less to keep his normal attack weaker than his SA, but I'm going to try out 2 dice first and see how it changes his playstyle. If it's too weak, then I'll bump it up to 3 at a shorter range and see how that fares (I think that decreasing the points is a bad idea with his Special Attack). That is a good point about the range of machine guns, though. I don't have the physical miniature in front of me right now, but I'm going to take a look at it when I get the chance and see if 8 range feels like it's too high. Proud Member of Platyfly!
Custom Units — Maps & Scenarios Battle Reports The Case for a VC Master Set |
#116
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Re: Astro's Custom Units [Update 9/30/18]
As I see it - and again, this is just my vision and not yours - going with a stompy normal attack (Range 1, Attack 5) and bumping his Life to 4 is not actually increasing his survivability. That mechanical change will force the player to choose between the booming, wonderful, wild Special Attack, and the heavy hitting melee attack.
It will, unlike your original design, give some incentive *not* to kite. And, therefore, will make melee contact with the enemy more frequent. Which means he'd probably survive *less*, as a practical matter, then he would with a lighter range attack and lower Life value. Again, just my . |
#117
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Re: Astro's Custom Units [Update 9/30/18]
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While changing his normal attack to be melee would lead to him being engaged slightly more often, I've found that this almost always happens anyway, so it wouldn't really result in him being in significantly more danger (at least not to the point that it would counteract bumping his survivability up to match Q10 in my eyes). In my opinion, the extra potency in close quarters, survivability, and bonding would push him up into the 150 points range and make him more of a heavy-hitter for the Hoplitrons than a standalone hero, which isn't in my vision for the unit. I definitely like many parts of your suggestion here, but it doesn't quite line up with where I want to take M.A.R.S. Proud Member of Platyfly!
Custom Units — Maps & Scenarios Battle Reports The Case for a VC Master Set |
#118
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Re: Astro's Custom Units [Update 9/30/18]
Loving the discussion in here, as I love this mini and the direction of a missle-using Valkrill Soulborg. Not too certain I like the special attack as it is on the card, but that's just the custom maker in me wanting everything to be unique.
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#119
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Re: Astro's Custom Units [Update 9/30/18]
@Pumpkin_King
Thanks for weighing in! Is it just from a term of uniqueness that you're uncertain on the Special Attack? It may seem like a simple change, but the dual-targeting system has really made M.A.R.S. feel unique in my games.
Here is the most recent version of the card: Changes:
I'm going to run a series of playtests with this version and post some reports here, then resubmit him if all goes well. Thanks again to everyone for their input. Proud Member of Platyfly!
Custom Units — Maps & Scenarios Battle Reports The Case for a VC Master Set |
#120
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Re: Astro's Custom Units [Update 9/30/18]
I’m really digging Mars with 8R/2A for his normal attack.
I’m not sure how I feel about Mindless either. Is Nihilist from Thanos an option at all? My customs. NE Ohio Tourney - TBA SW Ohio Tourney - NHSD 550 points AotV - Colliding the minis of AotP with the world of HS. |
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