[Defunct] The Book of Batman (Thomas Wayne)

[Ericth74]

yea

[redstang]

This Passes for Initial Playtesting.

[Arch-vile]

C3G STANDARD PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE PLAYTEST UNIT: Batman Thomas

Army Test
Map: Conflict Chernobyl
Units: Batman (Thomas Wayne) (200), Robin (Tim) (120), Robin (Damian) (80), Nightwing (II) (200) (600) VS Captain Cold (II), Captain Boomerang (Digger Harkness), Tar Pit, Abra Kadabra (600)

Spoiler Alert!

Batman and Nightwing make short work of Abra Kadabra thanks to their double attacks and Batman’s extra wound countering Faux Magical Defense. Tar Pit locks down Nightwing and deals him a couple wounds. Boomerang lands a wound on Batman. Tar Pit melts Nightwing. Batman kills Boomerang in a single turn. Damian wounds Cold, then Tar Pit + Cold kill Damian.

Batman brings Cold to 3 wounds while Tim engages Tar Pit to block access to engaging Batman. Cold tries to kill Batman but takes a wound from The House Always Wins, then Batman kills Cold. Batman then kills Tar Pit.


Who won? List figures remaining in the winning army (include life remaining for heroes): Batman Thomas (1 wound) and Robin Tim (1 wound) win.

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Army Test
Map: Conflict Chernobyl
Units: Batman (Thomas Wayne) (200), Oracle (110), Nightwing (200), Robin Tim (120), Robin Jason (70) (700) VS Luke Cage (190), Punisher (180), Swordsman (160), Night Thrasher (170) (700)

Spoiler Alert!

The Fighters take out Nightwing early on, while Luke blocks a lot of the attacks thrown against him. Batman tries to shoot but Night Thrasher’s smoke pellets conceal them. Swordsman takes out Jason Todd. Batman is blocked. Swordsman kills his second Robin. Batman misses his The House Always Wins roll, and Punisher puts 2 wounds onto Batman. Batman attacks a 1-wound Cage from height twice, and hits both attacks, which is enough to kill Luke thanks to Surgical Precision. Luke Cage had OM2 which is lost.

Batman attacks Swordsman but is blocked. A 0-wound Punisher targets Batman for an attack, and is killed by The House Always Wins. (It would have been pointless to stop attempting to target Batman, because the Fighters have to kill Batman to win and can’t do that without targeting him.) Batman kills Night Thrasher. Batman wins initiative and kills Swordsman.


Who won? List figures remaining in the winning army (include life remaining for heroes): Batman Thomas (2 wounds) and Oracle (0 wounds) wins.

This was a blowout loss for the Bat-Family until Thomas Wayne turned it around essentially by himself.

THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT'S COST, BALANCE, & DRAFTABILITY: 2 games in, but I think he needs some changes as he's really strong right now.

Thomas Wayne is a strong figure - ranged double attack paired with an extra wound from Surgical Precision will shred most figures at or below his point cost. The House Always Wins is a brutal defensive power, as it is essentially Spidey-Sense that procs at least half the time (more often if you have revealed OMs on Bats), plus an autowound on the attacker. Sure, it lets opponents try again but it means that they risk additional wounds. And there's few ways around it, as it works against adjacent attacks and special attacks.

I think he needs tuned down a bit. There's plenty of ways to go about doing that. One thing I would suggest is turning The House Always Wins into more of a standard "if you roll X or higher" thing, or remove the bonus for Batman's roll if you like the head-to-head aspect of it. Alternatively, possibly removing the extra wound bit from Surgical Precision would cut down his offense significantly. Even a normal ranged double attack of 4 is top tier offense for the Bat-Family faction.

All that said, I enjoyed how he played. Thomas Wayne Batman is a very brutal character compared to the traditional Bruce Wayne Batman, and this design represents that offensive fury well. He's a fun design and nice addition to the faction.

[Yodaking]

Some thoughts on how to scale if back a bit. Would making the bonus W a 50/50 thing help?

SURGICAL PRECISION
When Batman attacks, he may attack one additional time. If Batman inflicts at least one wound with his normal attack, roll an unblockable attack die against that figure.

What if it was limited to one bonus wound for the entire attack phase instead of per attack?

SURGICAL PRECISION
When Batman attacks, he may attack one additional time. If Batman inflicts one or more wounds with a normal attack during his turn, roll an unblockable attack die against one of the wounded figures.

Some kind of limit to the types of attacks is a good idea on the House power. Should always have some kind of counter options just for game balance/fun factor. Another thought would be to let them make the attack, if they are still alive after taking the W.

THE HOUSE ALWAYS WINS
When a figure targets Batman for a normal attack, before that attack you must both roll the 20-sided die. Add 2 to your roll for each revealed Order Marker on this card. If you roll higher, the targeting figure receives a wound, and it may target Batman again otherwise its turn immediately ends.

[Arch-vile]

Great ideas.Any of those would be solid tweaks as well.

[Shiftrex]

I think hitting the normal attacks instead of all attacks with the House always wins is a good way to scale it back. I understand wanting it to hit everything but it pushes him into another weight class.

The change to surgical precision here looks fun, I think it is still useful and doesn't take too much away but it allows people to not get destroyed as quickly. Getting nailed with two attacks and then two unblockables probably sucks on the same figure.

[redstang]

I like both suggestions. Will make updates tomorrow to limit The House Always Wins to normal attacks and limit the auto wound on Surgical Precision to once per turn. Appreciate the initial and good to hear he's a brute!

[redstang]

Also, moving the OM reveals to +1 instead of +2 was something that was originally contemplated, that would be another way to take down his defensive prowess.

[redstang]

SP updated with changes to nerf him a bit.

[Arch-vile]

Sounds good, I'll plan for a couple more tests!

[Arch-vile]

C3G STANDARD PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE PLAYTEST UNIT: Batman Thomas

Army Test
Map: Conflict Chernobyl
Units: Batman (Thomas Wayne) (200), Batman (Bat-Family) (270), Robin (Damian) (80), Lucius Fox (50), Robin (Dick) (100) (700) VS Pinhead(335), Jason(175), Sam(95), Leatherface(95) (700)

Spoiler Alert!

Leatherface and Dick end up both falling to the first attacks of the game. Thomas and Damian bring Jason up to 4 wounds. Jason puts a few wounds on Bruce before Thomas and Damian bring him down. Thomas and Damian then take out Sam, but doing so brings back Leatherface. Leatherface massacres Damian. Leatherface puts a couple wounds on Thomas but Thomas shoots at Pinhead from height and nails his Surgical Precision unblockables to kill him. Jason rises from the grave.

Thomas kills Leatherface while Jason kills Bruce. Jason proves an effective counter against Thomas, with his Unstoppable Resilience essentially negating The House Always Wins and the unblockable part of Surgical Precision. Jason kills Thomas then Lucius Fox for the win.


Who won? List figures remaining in the winning army (include life remaining for heroes): Jason (5 wounds) wins.

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Army Test
Map: Conflict Chernobyl
Units: Batman (Bat-Family) (270), Batman (Thomas Wayne) (200), Batgirl (Cassie) (130), Batwoman (180), Robin Tim (120) (900) VS Cyclops (Utopian) (240), Archangel (260), Jean Grey (180), Storm (220) (900)

Spoiler Alert!

Mutants get off to a good start, with Cyclops sniping a couple wounds onto Bruce and Robin. The Batfam offense initially struggles to do much, though Thomas wounds Jean once. Cyclops rushes in for an Optic Destruction that kills Bruce and heavily wounds Robin. Thomas brings Jean to 3 wounds. The X-Men take out Robin, and Storm elects to use Lightning Tempest to avoid Thomas’s THAW, which deals a couple wounds to Thomas and Batwoman while killing her own ally Jean.

Thomas wounds Storm and Batgirl wounds Cyclops. Storm kills Batwoman and Thomas. Batgirl nearly kills Cyclops but Archangel’s rolls for autowounds prove too hot.


Who won? List figures remaining in the winning army (include life remaining for heroes): Cyclops (4 wounds), Storm (2 wounds), Archangel win.

THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT'S COST, BALANCE, & DRAFTABILITY: Much more balanced after the revisions. Thomas is still quite good, but he doesn’t deal out quite as much damage and he’s defensively vulnerable when he misses The House Always Wins. Despite 2 losses here he felt quite balanced and I would not change anything.

[redstang]

Thanks for the additional tests! Looks like 200 points with the modifications is a better competitive fit than before.

I propose this moves to Public Playtesting.
@Arkham - ;
@Ericth74 - Yea ;
@IAmBatman - ;
@MrNobody - Yea ;
@Tornado - Yea ;
@Arch-vile - Yea ;
@Yodaking - Yea ;