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  #49  
Old November 6th, 2022, 04:51 PM
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Re: The Book of Batman (Thomas Wayne) - Design Phase

yea
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  #50  
Old November 7th, 2022, 10:43 AM
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Re: The Book of Batman (Thomas Wayne) - Initial Playtesting

This Passes for Initial Playtesting.
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  #51  
Old November 11th, 2022, 04:00 PM
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Re: The Book of Batman (Thomas Wayne) - Initial Playtesting

C3G STANDARD PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE PLAYTEST UNIT: Batman Thomas

Army Test
Map: Conflict Chernobyl
Units: Batman (Thomas Wayne) (200), Robin (Tim) (120), Robin (Damian) (80), Nightwing (II) (200) (600) VS Captain Cold (II), Captain Boomerang (Digger Harkness), Tar Pit, Abra Kadabra (600)
Spoiler Alert!

___________________________________________________________

Army Test
Map: Conflict Chernobyl
Units: Batman (Thomas Wayne) (200), Oracle (110), Nightwing (200), Robin Tim (120), Robin Jason (70) (700) VS Luke Cage (190), Punisher (180), Swordsman (160), Night Thrasher (170) (700)
Spoiler Alert!


THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT'S COST, BALANCE, & DRAFTABILITY: 2 games in, but I think he needs some changes as he's really strong right now.

Thomas Wayne is a strong figure - ranged double attack paired with an extra wound from Surgical Precision will shred most figures at or below his point cost. The House Always Wins is a brutal defensive power, as it is essentially Spidey-Sense that procs at least half the time (more often if you have revealed OMs on Bats), plus an autowound on the attacker. Sure, it lets opponents try again but it means that they risk additional wounds. And there's few ways around it, as it works against adjacent attacks and special attacks.

I think he needs tuned down a bit. There's plenty of ways to go about doing that. One thing I would suggest is turning The House Always Wins into more of a standard "if you roll X or higher" thing, or remove the bonus for Batman's roll if you like the head-to-head aspect of it. Alternatively, possibly removing the extra wound bit from Surgical Precision would cut down his offense significantly. Even a normal ranged double attack of 4 is top tier offense for the Bat-Family faction.

All that said, I enjoyed how he played. Thomas Wayne Batman is a very brutal character compared to the traditional Bruce Wayne Batman, and this design represents that offensive fury well. He's a fun design and nice addition to the faction.
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  #52  
Old November 11th, 2022, 05:56 PM
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Re: The Book of Batman (Thomas Wayne) - Initial Playtesting

Some thoughts on how to scale if back a bit. Would making the bonus W a 50/50 thing help?

SURGICAL PRECISION
When Batman attacks, he may attack one additional time. If Batman inflicts at least one wound with his normal attack, roll an unblockable attack die against that figure.

What if it was limited to one bonus wound for the entire attack phase instead of per attack?

SURGICAL PRECISION
When Batman attacks, he may attack one additional time. If Batman inflicts one or more wounds with a normal attack during his turn, roll an unblockable attack die against one of the wounded figures.

Some kind of limit to the types of attacks is a good idea on the House power. Should always have some kind of counter options just for game balance/fun factor. Another thought would be to let them make the attack, if they are still alive after taking the W.

THE HOUSE ALWAYS WINS
When a figure targets Batman for a normal attack, before that attack you must both roll the 20-sided die. Add 2 to your roll for each revealed Order Marker on this card. If you roll higher, the targeting figure receives a wound, and it may target Batman again otherwise its turn immediately ends.
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  #53  
Old November 11th, 2022, 06:27 PM
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Re: The Book of Batman (Thomas Wayne) - Initial Playtesting

Great ideas.Any of those would be solid tweaks as well.
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  #54  
Old November 11th, 2022, 06:31 PM
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Re: The Book of Batman (Thomas Wayne) - Initial Playtesting

I think hitting the normal attacks instead of all attacks with the House always wins is a good way to scale it back. I understand wanting it to hit everything but it pushes him into another weight class.

The change to surgical precision here looks fun, I think it is still useful and doesn't take too much away but it allows people to not get destroyed as quickly. Getting nailed with two attacks and then two unblockables probably sucks on the same figure.
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  #55  
Old November 13th, 2022, 12:28 AM
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Re: The Book of Batman (Thomas Wayne) - Initial Playtesting

I like both suggestions. Will make updates tomorrow to limit The House Always Wins to normal attacks and limit the auto wound on Surgical Precision to once per turn. Appreciate the initial and good to hear he's a brute!
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  #56  
Old November 13th, 2022, 12:51 AM
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Re: The Book of Batman (Thomas Wayne) - Initial Playtesting

Also, moving the OM reveals to +1 instead of +2 was something that was originally contemplated, that would be another way to take down his defensive prowess.
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  #57  
Old November 13th, 2022, 07:39 PM
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Re: The Book of Batman (Thomas Wayne) - Initial Playtesting

SP updated with changes to nerf him a bit.
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  #58  
Old November 13th, 2022, 07:47 PM
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Re: The Book of Batman (Thomas Wayne) - Initial Playtesting

Sounds good, I'll plan for a couple more tests!
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  #59  
Old November 29th, 2022, 01:54 PM
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Re: The Book of Batman (Thomas Wayne) - Initial Playtesting

C3G STANDARD PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE PLAYTEST UNIT: Batman Thomas

Army Test
Map: Conflict Chernobyl
Units: Batman (Thomas Wayne) (200), Batman (Bat-Family) (270), Robin (Damian) (80), Lucius Fox (50), Robin (Dick) (100) (700) VS Pinhead(335), Jason(175), Sam(95), Leatherface(95) (700)
Spoiler Alert!

___________________________________________________________

Army Test
Map: Conflict Chernobyl
Units: Batman (Bat-Family) (270), Batman (Thomas Wayne) (200), Batgirl (Cassie) (130), Batwoman (180), Robin Tim (120) (900) VS Cyclops (Utopian) (240), Archangel (260), Jean Grey (180), Storm (220) (900)
Spoiler Alert!


THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT'S COST, BALANCE, & DRAFTABILITY: Much more balanced after the revisions. Thomas is still quite good, but he doesn’t deal out quite as much damage and he’s defensively vulnerable when he misses The House Always Wins. Despite 2 losses here he felt quite balanced and I would not change anything.
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  #60  
Old December 1st, 2022, 02:08 PM
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Re: The Book of Batman (Thomas Wayne) - VOTE for Playtesting

Thanks for the additional tests! Looks like 200 points with the modifications is a better competitive fit than before.

I propose this moves to Public Playtesting.
@Arkham - ;
@Ericth74 - Yea ;
@IAmBatman - ;
@MrNobody - Yea ;
@Tornado - Yea ;
@Arch-vile - Yea ;
@Yodaking - Yea ;

Last edited by redstang; December 2nd, 2022 at 07:42 PM.
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