Just_a_Bill’s Wording Suggestions Thread

[Just_a_Bill]

So quozl asked me to gather all of my wording issues and suggestions into one thread, to make them easier to process through. I guess as they get invalidated, rejected, or accepted, I'll try to scratch them off the list with strikeout.

Just let me know whatever's most convenient for the C3G team.

Two things I should clarify first:

1. The discussion from Thor's thread is going to take me a while to bring over here. I want to try to distill it down to its core, to keep it manageable.
   
   
2. Please don't anyone take these comments as criticism. I am amazed by the quality of the C3G project, which has far fewer issues for me to comment on than any other project I've worked on in recent memory. I wouldn't even be compiling these notes if I didn't have great respect for what you all have accomplished. Those who have a strong enough stomach to tolerate some over-emoting can read more here and here.

Index

• Beast [done]
• Beta Ray Bill [done]
• Doombot [done]
• Flash (Wally West) [done]
• Flash (Barry Allen) [done]
• Hawkeye [done]
• Lobster Johnson [done]
• Magneto (I and II) [rejected: falling damage ambiguous, should be explicit]
• Mole Man [done, and improved upon by the design team]
• Moloid [done]
• Nightcrawler [rejected: interaction between powers unclear; move vs. place]
• Rogue [done, and improved upon by the design team]
• Sabretooth [done]
• She-Hulk [done]
• Wendigo [done]
• Red Tornado [done]
• Size Keywords Incorrectly Capitalized — lists all instances of incorrect caps, according to text in the Index
• Vulture [done]
• What Follows "the Following"? — should leave off the noun whenever possible
• Ronan — individual vs. collective targeting; individual vs. collective moving; double-base figures; ambiguous placement of "only"
• Deadpool [done]
• Bishop — unclear if energy marker needed for one-shield defense
• Glyph of Shrinking Ray Gun — should use established wording conventions
• Riddler — grammar; Loki ambiguity
• 5th Precinct Beat Cops [done]
• Two-Face [done]
• Poison Ivy — lots of issues on Entangling Vines; probably needs a different approach
• Star-Lord, Lex Luthor, & LexCorp Security — harmonize Lucky Defense and Kryptonian Armor; fix global issue on KA
• Mephisto — still a pouncing problem with Sabretooth
• Dagger, Nomad, Ozymandias — would be good to explicitly say unrevealed Order Marker
• Short Ruin D.O. [done]
• Rhino & Toxic Waste Barrel D.O. — extraneous text for unblockable attack dice
• Odin — Life values -> Life numbers; redundant you control ... on the battlefield; Odinsleep intentionally mandatory?
• Healing Factor X — the second sentence is dependent upon the first

[Just_a_Bill]

Beast

[done]

http://www.heroscapers.com/community...ad.php?t=27877

On the mini PDF (and in the second post of the thread), within the game text for STEALTH LEAP 12, references to the special power name say "Stealth Leap." On the comic PDF and in both of the inline card images, it says "Stealth Leap 12" within the text.

In Beast's thread I had said that some "12s" needed to be inserted (per the Hasbro convention), but A3n replied that the C3G convention was to not repeat the numbers in the text references. (Great choice, by the way! It reads pretty awkwardly when a special power name that ends with a number is used as a verb .)

So it would seem that the mini PDF and the second post of the thread are correct, but all the other places need to have the "12" deleted.

[Just_a_Bill]

Beta Ray Bill

[done]

http://www.heroscapers.com/community...&postcount=303

Reducing the Range number for STORMBREAKER SPECIAL ATTACK seems like an unnecessary (and unusual) extra step, since the adjacency requirement makes that redundant. (And from a thematic standpoint, he isn't really "reducing his range," he's just choosing to swipe at everyone within arm's reach.)

Also, it's unclear whether the bonus dice are progressive or not, and if they are, whether the +1 kicks in on the first figure or the second. In other words, if he attacks 4 adjacent figures, three interpretations are possible:

• Roll 4+2=6 dice against each figure.
• Roll 4, then 5, then 6, then 6.
• Roll 5, then 6, then 6, then 6.

I have a lot more discusson (and research) on this in BRB's thread, and I proposed multiple suggested rewordings, but here's the one marrowick liked the best:

STORMBREAKER SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 4. Attack 4 + Special.
If Beta Ray Bill attacks an adjacent figure, he may then attack a different adjacent figure, adding 1 attack die. He may continue attacking different adjacent figures, rolling 1 more attack die for each subsequent attack, up to a maximum of +2 dice.

[Just_a_Bill]

Doombot

[done]

http://www.heroscapers.com/community...&postcount=244

The card images and PDFs say "If you control Doctor Doom, and he is destroyed," but the second post of the thread and the C3G Sortable Index spreadsheet say "If you control Doctor Doom, and he is destroyed by an opponent’s figure."

[Just_a_Bill]

Flash (Wally West)

[done]

http://www.heroscapers.com/community...&postcount=148

INFINITE MASS PUNCH SPECIAL ATTACK

I think I recall reading somewhere that you have a convention not to split "SPECIAL ATTACK" at a line break. (I've noticed this on other cards as well; when I get some time I'll try to make a list.)

SPEED FORCE

There's more explanation in the thread, but in a nutshell this power has a grammar problem that could be fixed in a couple of ways:

1. ... If Flash did not attack this turn, either he may move up to an additional 4 spaces, or you may choose...
   
2. ... If Flash did not attack this turn, you may either move him up to an additional 4 spaces, or choose ...

Flash (Barry Allen)

[done]

http://www.heroscapers.com/community...&postcount=568

Like Wally, Barry has a line break in the middle of "SPECIAL ATTACK" if that's something you want to avoid.

If so, and while you have the hood up, there's a space character missing here: "Range 1. Attack 1, [missing space] 2, or 3."

[Just_a_Bill]

Hawkeye

[done]

http://www.heroscapers.com/community...&postcount=232

TRICK ARROWS SPECIAL ATTACK is missing an "also," which is needed to make it clear that the two later targets are in addition to the originally chosen figure, not instead of. I proposed an updated wording, which Viegon further improved upon:

Originally Posted by Viegon

TRICK ARROWS SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 8. Attack 3.
Choose a non-adjacent figure to attack. Before attacking with this special attack, choose one of the following effects:
• choose up to two figures within 2 clear sight spaces of the targeted figure to also be affected by this attack. Roll attack dice once for all affected figures. Each figure rolls defense dice separately; or
• the defending figure rolls 1 fewer defense die; or
• if you inflict one or more wounds on the defending figure, immediately roll one unblockable attack die for each wound inflicted this turn.

Then, starting here, there was also some discussion about the "cheat" of embedding a whole paragraph into the middle of an inline series, and whether it's easier to read if the big complex option comes last. Viegon agreed, but Hellfire made a good point that there's also value in having the options listed more or less chronologically.

Regardless of whether this informs a change for Hawkeye, it might also be an opportunity to discuss the principles and come up with a general convention for future use.

[Just_a_Bill]

Lobster Johnson

[done]

His last name is misspelled as "Johnston" at the very end of HELPFUL GHOST (both card versions).

[Just_a_Bill]

Magneto (I and II)

http://www.heroscapers.com/community...ad.php?t=27883
http://www.heroscapers.com/community...ad.php?t=36750

Regarding the mini (not comic) version, the image in the PDF is not in synch with the inline image in the thread. There are many differences, but in particular the mini PDF misspells moving as "moveing" in the first sentence of MAGNETIC THROW. Assuming the inline image was the final, the PDF should be updated to match it (there are several subtle wording variations and visual differences.) [this part done; remainder rejected]

When I read MAGNETIC THROW (and Magneto II's MAGNETIC ASSAULT 9), I immediately wondered whether the thrown figure is or is not subject to falling damage where appropriate. Shurrak's KNOCKBACK 14, for example, says "A non-flying figure moved lower by Knockback can receive any falling damage that may apply."

The C3G Knockback rule is explicit as well ("Determine falling damage after Knockback has been resolved") and seems to set a precedent for special-case damage and falling damage both applying individually. Magneto's throwing damage (either version) applies whether the figure gains or loses elevation, suggesting that the damage comes from being grabbed, shaken, accelerated, or smacked against another object — rather than due to gravity, which wouldn't apply when gaining elevation — and it applies to fliers, so I'm guessing that falling damage does in fact apply separately; but I also have this weird gut feeling that the team wanted throwing damage to take the place of falling damage. Regardless, it seems like the special power text should answer this question (unless I missed a general C3G rule about this somewhere).

Hahma cataloged some specifics here, but I have not had time to go back and understand what the conclusion is (if there is one). All I know is, I read the Magneto cards and I can't tell what the answer is.

[Just_a_Bill]

Mole Man

[done, and improved upon by the design team]

http://www.heroscapers.com/community...&postcount=198

For TUNNEL SURPRISE, the text in the second post (and the C3G sortable index spreadsheet) is slightly different from what's on the cards. Not gameplay-different; it just looks like they might be missing some final wordsmithing. What's on the cards reads better and seems more consistent with other units, and eliminates a potential ambiguity with the word "not."

Also, regarding this phrase:

After placing Mole Man, you may choose up to 4 Moloids you control that were adjacent to Mole Man prior to him being placed with Tunnel Surprise.

Based on other cards I've seen (Jean Gray, Phoenix, Dark Phoenix, both Magnetos, several Iron Man designs, Storm, Superman II, and many others), it seems like this could be more concise, readable, and consistent as follows:

After placing Mole Man, you may choose up to 4 Moloids you control that were adjacent to Mole Man's original placement.

For SWARM DISTRACTION, the PDF and forum post again disagree, but in this case it seems like each one has a different part of what I assume was to be the final wording. The forum post has the opponent rolling dice instead of the figure, but the PDF has a correct comma that is missing in the forum post. If I'm not mistaken, the correct blend of the two probably looks like this?

SWARM DISTRACTION
When Mole Man attacks an opponent’s figure, the opponent rolls 1 fewer defense die for each Subterranean figure you control engaged with the opponent’s figure , [comma here] to a minimum of 1 defense die.

[Just_a_Bill]

Moloid

[done]

http://www.heroscapers.com/community...&postcount=320

It looks like the second post of the thread is missing a small update:

LOYAL TO ONE RULER
At the start of the game, choose one Unique Ruler Hero you control to be the One Ruler for all Moloids you control. After revealing an Order Marker on this card and before taking a turn with a Moloid, you may first take a turn with its chosen One Ruler. Any Moloid rolls 1 additional attack die when its chosen One Ruler is within 2 clear sight spaces.

[Just_a_Bill]

Nightcrawler

Starting here, there's some discussion of how the first two special powers interact. Specifically, due to the fact that the difference between movement and placement is not always clear in Heroscape, and due to Nightcrawler's unusual situation of having one special that forbids attacking, but that can be used in the middle of another special which is an attack (that has already been initiated), there's some ambiguity about exactly what you can do here.

I presented several possible options in the thread, but probably only two are worth considering. The first takes a page from Science Police's EXTREME PREJUDICE, which says "if you do not attack a Human figure during the turn" and seems to do a good job of both checking backward and restricting forward:

BAMF!
Instead of moving Nightcrawler normally, you may choose an empty space within 3 spaces of Nightcrawler. Place Nightcrawler on the chosen space. When Nightcrawler starts to Bamf!, if he is engaged he will not take any leaving engagement attacks. If you do not attack during the turn, Nightcrawler may add 5 spaces to his Bamf! movement. If he does, he cannot attack this turn.

Then, to also help with the confusion around movement vs. placement I proposed another approach that tries to kill two birds with one stone, by stealing some concise wording from Magneto (within X spaces of its original placement) and by implementing the "move too far and you can't attack" restriction in such a simple way that the reader doesn't really even have to think about it.

BAMF!
Instead of moving Nightcrawler normally, you may place him on any empty space within 8 spaces of his original placement. When Nightcrawler starts to Bamf!, if he is engaged he will not take any leaving engagement attacks. If Nightcrawler is placed more than 3 spaces from his original placement, his turn then ends.

Expressed this way, it might also feel a bit more thematic, too.

In the thread I also listed some challenges with the Teleporting Barrage SA, and proposed some readability enhancements using the approach of Deathwalker 8000, Frost Giant of Morh, Samuel Brown, etc., in combination with Major Q10's method of counting the number of power uses, and Sharwin Wildborn's "in this manner" approach:

TELEPORTING BARRAGE SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 1. Attack 3.
After Nightcrawler attacks with his Teleporting Barrage Special Attack, he may use his Bamf! special power. If he does, he may attack again with his Teleporting Barrage Special Attack. In this manner, Nightcrawler may use this special attack up to 3 times in the same turn.

Or, even shorter and more easily digestible:

TELEPORTING BARRAGE SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 1. Attack 3.
After Nightcrawler attacks with this special attack, he may use his Bamf! special power. Nightcrawler may use his Teleporting Barrage Special Attack up to 3 times in the same turn if he uses his Bamf! special power before each additional attack.

(I left out the original text's redundant requirement to "move at least one space" because it is impossible to Bamf! without relocating. Kurt can't teleport onto his own current space because it is not empty.)

[Just_a_Bill]

Rogue

[done, and improved upon by the design team]

http://www.heroscapers.com/community...&postcount=303

Originally Posted by SirGalahad

seems to confuse more than clarify...It sounds like she might be able to freely move it around...

I have to agree with SirGalahad: this does not read the way it is intended to work. Obviously I'm a few years late to the discussion, but as written this definitely reads like blanket permission to move the marker around wherever you like (it feels especially emphatic and global because of the repeated use of the word any).

Instead of giving permission to move the marker around from any card to any other card, you probably want to give permission to take it from a card it has already been placed on; and to do so directly in context of the marker's normal method of placement. Then you get the clarification you want, with no unintended extra capabilities.

DRAINING TOUCH
Start the game with 1 black Drain Marker. Instead of attacking, you may choose an adjacent figure that is not an Android or a destructible object. Roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 11 or higher, the chosen figure receives one wound, and you may place your Drain Marker on the chosen figure’s Army Card if it is a Unique Hero. The Drain Marker can be moved from any Army Card to any other Army Card and, if that figure is a Unique Hero, you may place your Drain Marker on its Army Card (removing the Drain Marker from its previous Army Card, if any). At the end of the round or when Rogue is destroyed, remove your Drain Marker from the chosen figure’s card.

Though it doesn't look it due to the boldfacing, this approach is shorter, too.

Now, on to POWER TRANSFER. This special power starts out with an undefined reference to a "chosen figure." I believe each special power is supposed to be self-contained, so this really should not be trying to refer to the "chosen" figure from a different special power. Furthermore, unless I am mistaken, the shelf life of the word "chosen" has never lasted past the current invocation of a special power, but in this case it's trying to stretch itself back to something that was "chosen" multiple turns ago.

I wonder if you really just mean to reference the marker whenever it is on any Army Card except this one? I suppose POWER TRANSFER could just begin with "While your Drain Marker is on another figure’s card," but that doesn't really hold up well for the later references in the paragraph. So, perhaps referring to the other figure as the drained figure (instead of "chosen") might do the trick.

Also, the sentence structure around the borrowed use of the attack number, defense number, and special powers is a bit rough. If you want to consider the "drained figure" approach, this also provides an opportunity to smooth the structure for readability.

As I was composing this message, I suddenly realized something else. Rogue uses the other card's numbers instead of her own, but uses its special powers in addition to her own. This is probably a good thing to be explicit about, since some players might think everything comes over in a dominant fashion.

Finally, there's a weird unintended self-reference here. POWER TRANSFER is, itself, a "special power [that] refers to the chosen figure or the chosen figure’s card" — thus, technically, POWER TRANSFER must now refer to Rogue instead of referring to her victim, by its own rules. (Were this computer software, we'd have something akin to an infinite loop or a null pointer reference here. ) This can be addressed by focusing the effect on that card's special powers, rather than all special powers in general.

So those suggestions would look like this:

POWER TRANSFER
While your Drain Marker is on a drained figure’s card, Rogue must use that card's Attack and Defense numbers in place of her own and may use any of its special powers on that card in addition to her own. If any of its special powers refers to the drained figure or the drained figure’s card, they refers to Rogue or Rogue’s card instead. A drained figure that has a Drain Marker on its card may not use any special powers on its card.

Or, just go for the short version; seems clear enough to me:

POWER TRANSFER
While your Drain Marker is on another figure’s card, Rogue must use that card's Attack and Defense numbers in place of her own and may use any of its special powers in addition to her own. If any of its special powers refer to that figure or that figure’s card, they refer to Rogue or Rogue’s card instead. That figure may not use any special powers on its card.

EDIT: Revised to say "instead in place of her own" for consistency with Echo's MIMIC.