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  #1  
Old March 17th, 2007, 12:41 AM
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Doc_Savage Doc_Savage is offline
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HALLS of VALHALLA Nominee Discussion - EOV Hoax

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArchonShiva
A long time ago, I promised myself that, when the time was right, I'd nominate a certain unit to the Halls, for Historical Significance, in a World War II kind of way -- like it or not, it's historically significant for the effects it's had on the community.

The idea, however, was not to make trouble for the creator, and thus I waited until the wounds healed a good bit. Now, truth finally brought it up and discussed it on Scapetalk, and thus I feel it's become a subject that can be discussed again.

Also, the Halls have been dead for weeks.

Thus, without further ado, on grounds of historical significance, as definitely one of the top three customs with the most impact on the history of our community, I nominate truth's Elite Onyx Vipers:



This card was created as a joke back on HSHQ, presented as a real version of the final card, and quickly rose to a 47-pages thread, including some death threats at the instigators.

Personally, I think it was great. Others don't. But most of all, the significance of the event cannot be denied. I strongly suggest that, along with the card's introduction, we have someone with first-hand knowledge of the debacle write up an account for future generations. This was as big as the shelf, and we should no longer try to pretend it never happened.
ArchonShiva Nominated and Chaos Child, Doc Savage and JustJohn have agreed it should move on to discussion and voting.

So this fabled, hated, laughed about piece of history is getting the 1st official Nominee thread in the revamped Halls.

As a reminder - here are the rules...

NOMINEE DISCUSSION THREAD

There will be no more than 2 active Nominee Discussion Threads at any given time. ANYONE in the community can participate in the discussion on these threads.

After a minimum of one week of discussion, voting may begin. Sometimes the discussion will go on longer. During the discussion period, if there are issues that the creator wishes to address, they can post rebuttals to issues or revisions of the card. When the creator is satisfied that they will make no further comments or revisions, the Judges will vote.

When the discussion and voting are done, the creator will have the option to have the discussion merged with their own creators thread.

Historic Cards are voted in or not – editing of the cards should not happen. Many of the creators have moved on from the community and you wouldn’t ask for a retouch of a Picasso to straighten a nose. If the creator wishes to or already has updated the card, that new card can be linked.

VOTING

As we restart the Halls, there will be 6 Judges on the Panel. When it comes time to vote, each Judge should cast their vote in the Nominee Discussion Thread and give the reasons for their vote. If more Judges join the Panel, the following requirement still stands; Two dissenting votes eliminates a nominee. The Panel shall have a maximum of 9 Judges.

To get into the Halls there has to be an overriding consensus that the card is deserving of a place with the best of the best. A minimum of 4 Judges must cast YES votes. There can be a maximum of 1 dissenting vote.

If one Judge strongly objects, the voting shall not be considered final until the objection is considered by the other Judges. Each Judge then makes a final determination as to their vote.

Judges may not vote on their own customs, but they may participate in the discussion of their custom.

Should the card be voted in to the Halls it will take its place either Honoring our Roots or with the cards representing the Heroscapers Best.

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  #2  
Old March 17th, 2007, 08:42 AM
ArchonShiva ArchonShiva is offline
 
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As far as 'm concerned, this card is a shoe-in : if it doesn't make it, there's probably something wrong with the voting system for historicals. That said, it's an excellent time to actually TEST the system, so here goes.

I'll try to summarize the history of it, but I only read the thread after Glasswalker (the webmaster on HSHQ, the previous HS community) stepped in about it, so I was never actually part of it.

When Hasbro announced a Wal-Mart exclusive named the Elite Onyx Vipers, it soon became clear (due to the previous exclusive, Nerak) that they would simply be repainted Venoc Vipers with new powers.

screamingtruth (now truth... was the hoax the reason he changed his name? That was too long ago. Maybe screaming was just on .net) and another user (who should be credited just as much) created the "fake" version and posted it under a "new user" account, from a different IP address, saying he worked at Wal-Mart and had gotten a set from the warehouse.

The thread immediately exploded with intense discussion, with the occasional user calling for attention to something amiss, such as the plural "SPACES" for range. truth and his partner even called the new poster's identity into question publicly, but most users were seriously going along.

Not so many days afterwards, but a large number of pages thus (if you recall, any thread with stats and/or blurry pictures of upcoming officials goes to 17 pages within half a day), the partners revelaed their scheme, starting with a resounding GOTCHA! Some were amused, others were thrilled, and some professed death threats and said the community had been misled and badly hurt and threatened to leave. I'm still wondering who actually left, though.

truth said it was all in good fun, and that it brought out how little people care about customs and how much they suddenly go bonkers over anything if it looks or sounds official, and that people shouldn't take it so seriously. Some people grew very irate at this attitude and called for his head, asking him to step down as a mod or for Glasswalker to fire him.

Glasswalker, who was always away working on his job instead of taking care of the website (which is okay, really!) was finally gotten hold of and came to see what was going on, saying a longish speech about healing the community. truth finally apologized, and it was generally said things like this should never be done again. Very late through, Hero (webmaster at the very first HS community -- this here's the third incarnation) chimed in and said he wished he'd thought of that himself.

Afterwards, some guy working at Toy's 'R Us got a hold of an actual EOV Master Set and came to us with teh news. Boy did that poor helpful user not deserve some of the responses he got... Maybe we should include him as an honorable mention in the EOV story. I feel for you, man.

Oh yeah. The fnal card had exactly the same stats and only the last power was different from truth's guess.


This card has significant historical value for a large number of reasons.

1. It created what I believe has been the largest rift ever in the HS community. A large number of users have threatened to leave HSHQ after the hoax was revealed, and some may actually have left. (If reapersaurus was a custom, maybe we could put him in the Halls on those grounds...)

2. It dramatically raised the amount of suspicion this community brings to any new information.

3. It went on for 37 pages, and then a thread ABOUT the Hoax went on for about 20.

4. It's probably the one custom card seen by the most users, since it was featured outside the customs forums.

5. It fooled Chris at Hasbro. That's gotta count for something.

Basically, this is either the Beatles or the Adolf Hitler of customs history (depending on if you like it or not - I'm with Hero). We can't leave THAT out of history books.

As an aside, the card is fit to use in an actual game. Ain't that cool?

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  #3  
Old March 17th, 2007, 09:15 AM
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I was actually on a break from HS when this event happened, so I'm able to look at it from an outsider, so to speak. It was a pretty clever idea, and I think this is probably the most well known custom there is. I also feel that it should get a place in the Halls.

It looks really official, and I can see how it fooled so many people. I like the touch of putting it on a surface and taking a picture of it, so it got that "here's our first look" shiny corner. Nice touch.

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  #4  
Old March 17th, 2007, 09:59 AM
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Heck yes this should be archived. You're right, guys, this is historically significant to the HS crowd. Plus it was funny.

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  #5  
Old March 17th, 2007, 10:42 AM
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My vote's in.

I vote for it to be in, for historical significance.

I read the boards a lot at the 1st site & only a little at the 2nd, and now I'm sort of getting in to the 3rd, & I missed out on this big hoax thing. I DO remember seeing a post about the vipers & a link to EBAY showing the actual MS box, with the poster eventually pulling the listing & saying he'd get his friend from Wal-Mart in trouble for selling it & really shouldn't have put it up in the 1st place. Was that part of this hoax? I still have pics from that auction somewhere & the MS box was the real deal. Anyway, months later the set actually came out, looking just like it did in that auction.
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  #6  
Old March 17th, 2007, 10:56 AM
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Taelord Taelord is offline
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I don't knowif this is a good idea. It seems like encouraging the people who made the fake to do it again. If they get rewarded for it why not do it again.
P.S.
Why are the vipers purple on that card?

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  #7  
Old March 17th, 2007, 10:58 AM
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netherspirit netherspirit is offline
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I vote yes.
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  #8  
Old March 17th, 2007, 12:06 PM
ArchonShiva ArchonShiva is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taelord
I don't knowif this is a good idea. It seems like encouraging the people who made the fake to do it again. If they get rewarded for it why not do it again.
P.S.
Why are the vipers purple on that card?
As far as I'm concerned, if this encourages truth to create occasional hoaxes on his own website, I really don't see anything wrong with it. I'm of the ones that found this really cool anyway, but I mean, truth owns Heroscapers.com, for cryin' out loud!

Besides, I don't think listing World War II as one of the most significant events of the previous century is going to encourage Germany to take on the world again.

And April 1st is only two weeks away. It'd be great to get a yearly hoax on the front page -- many websites, and some very serious magazines actually do this, and it's considered fair.

nether: according to the guidelines, you can't vote until it's been a week. I don't think there's anything wrong with saying right away what your vote is pretty much certainly going to be, but it won't be counted unless you re-vote after it's been a week. The intent, as far as I understand it, is that you can't vote yes (or no) on a custom the first day and disappear, missing out on important discussion that shoyuld have affected your decision.

By respect for your fellow posters, please refrain from gratuitous use of the terms "******", "****", "****", "*****", "***", "****", "***", "******", "******" and "GenCon exclusive".
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  #9  
Old March 17th, 2007, 12:06 PM
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Good or bad, this is part of our history. It should be acknowledged as such lest we be doomed to repeat another hoax. I am sorry I missed out on all the fun. I think the points are little high, though. :P

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  #10  
Old March 17th, 2007, 01:16 PM
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I'm still waiting for my full set of "Peregin's(sp?) Siege".
It must have gotten pushed back.

Yes. It has got to go in.

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  #11  
Old March 17th, 2007, 01:41 PM
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netherspirit netherspirit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArchonShiva
nether: according to the guidelines, you can't vote until it's been a week. I don't think there's anything wrong with saying right away what your vote is pretty much certainly going to be, but it won't be counted unless you re-vote after it's been a week. The intent, as far as I understand it, is that you can't vote yes (or no) on a custom the first day and disappear, missing out on important discussion that shoyuld have affected your decision.
I forgot about the new guidelines. My bad. I will re-vote when discussion is over.

As for the discussion itself, IMO there doesn't need to be any. This card absolutely needs to be included in the Halls, no ifs, ands or buts about it.
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  #12  
Old March 18th, 2007, 01:57 PM
ArchonShiva ArchonShiva is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by netherspirit
I forgot about the new guidelines. My bad. I will re-vote when discussion is over.

As for the discussion itself, IMO there doesn't need to be any. This card absolutely needs to be included in the Halls, no ifs, ands or buts about it.
I absolutely agree, but since this is the first nomination to pass the initial round under the new rules, it ends up serving as a test run for the whole voting system, thus we might as well do it properly.

That said, discussion seems to be light and supportive -- I never doubted that this one would make it in easily.

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