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C3G Legacy Library This is the archive for all the designs released in the original era of C3G. Feel free to post any figure specific questions in their individual books.

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  #37  
Old August 3rd, 2013, 06:29 PM
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Re: The Book of Scarlet Spider (Kaine Parker) ~ Vote for Tes

Quozl/SirG
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  #38  
Old August 3rd, 2013, 11:42 PM
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Re: The Book of Scarlet Spider (Kaine Parker) ~ Vote for Tes

yea to testing

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  #39  
Old August 3rd, 2013, 11:56 PM
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Re: The Book of Scarlet Spider (Kaine Parker) ~ Vote for Tes

Nay

I want to see a test with a Defense of 5 and Stingers at 9+. That's a pretty big change.

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  #40  
Old August 4th, 2013, 12:42 AM
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Re: The Book of Scarlet Spider (Kaine Parker) ~ Vote for Tes

Quote:
STEALTH SUIT
Before moving, you may place the black Stealth Marker on this card. While the Stealth Marker is on this card, Scarlet Spider can move through all figures and obstacles such as ruins and is never attacked when leaving an engagement. Scarlet Spider cannot be targeted by opponents' non-adjacent figures for any attack or for any opponents' special powers that require clear sight. If Scarlet Spider attacks or uses any other special power on this Army Card, remove the Stealth Marker from this card.
Should this line also include if Scarlet Spider rolls defense dice? I mean if he's being attacked from an adjacent figure, others should notice him just as easily as if he attacked. Not to mention, that it would be weird if the marker didn't get removed when he defended, but it would be removed if he defended against an attack that was affected by his Super Strength special power, since wouldn't he be using his superstrength power, even if passively and not on his turn?

Including defending taking the marker off would make things easier in regards to funky stuff, not to mention it makes sens.

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  #41  
Old August 4th, 2013, 02:25 AM
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Re: The Book of Scarlet Spider (Kaine Parker) ~ Vote for Tes

Quote:
Originally Posted by quozl View Post
Nay

I want to see a test with a Defense of 5 and Stingers at 9+. That's a pretty big change.
Um.. We're going to playtesting phase. No mechanics changed, just some numbers. I'm confident having played him that this won't do anything too crazy to his cost. I'm expecting maybe slightly undercosted after playtesting, but not by much at all.

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Quote:
STEALTH SUIT
Before moving, you may place the black Stealth Marker on this card. While the Stealth Marker is on this card, Scarlet Spider can move through all figures and obstacles such as ruins and is never attacked when leaving an engagement. Scarlet Spider cannot be targeted by opponents' non-adjacent figures for any attack or for any opponents' special powers that require clear sight. If Scarlet Spider attacks or uses any other special power on this Army Card, remove the Stealth Marker from this card.
Should this line also include if Scarlet Spider rolls defense dice? I mean if he's being attacked from an adjacent figure, others should notice him just as easily as if he attacked. Not to mention, that it would be weird if the marker didn't get removed when he defended, but it would be removed if he defended against an attack that was affected by his Super Strength special power, since wouldn't he be using his superstrength power, even if passively and not on his turn?

Including defending taking the marker off would make things easier in regards to funky stuff, not to mention it makes sens.
What abilities affect Superstrength passively? I don't think it really counts as using the power either, if it's referenced in another power. I guess I don't really understand your point here. I'm open to change for mechanics sake, if needed.

Rather not lose the power when defending, since that really nerfs him against squads. You should also know where Invisible woman is if someone's attacking her.
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  #42  
Old August 4th, 2013, 07:31 AM
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Re: The Book of Scarlet Spider (Kaine Parker) ~ Vote for Tes

Yeah, that would nerf him vs. squads. It was late (for me) last night when I posted that, so I didn't think it through in that way.

As far as what I meant about passive use of Superstrength when defending, I was referring to powers on the attacker's card that are affected by whether Scarlet Spider has Superstrength. Like Piledriver's Pounding Fists that give -1 to defense to figures w/o SS. Or Abomination who's d20 is modified for his throw vs. a figure with SS. Or other powers that say figures with SS aren't affected etc. I guess I wasn't sure if that is "technically" considered using his SS special power. Figured it was worth mentioning in case someone down the road asks about it after he is released.

The same for throwing DO's. The rules say a figure with the SS special power can throw DO's. It doesn't say that the figure is "using" SS, just has to have it. Though thematically it is implied that you are using SS to be able to throw the DO.

Same for figures with SS not taking damage from falling. Doesn't say they are using SS to avoid damage, but it's thematically implied that they are using SS in the passive way of just being tougher physically. But it's the same as the other things that say "a figure with Superstrength".


So then we have to consider if the times when Scarlet Spider (or any figure for that matter, though not specifically in this case) is affected in any way by having Superstrength (whether the attacker is modified, throwing DO's or Falling), is considered to have "used" that power. Because for him specifically, it matters because of his Stealth Suit.

Figures with SS that have their powers negated, no longer benefit from those things I mentioned above. So that's something to think about in how having SS affects a figure and whether it's technically considered being "used" when they benefit from it. If the answer is yes for throwing DO's for example, then the answer should be yes for all instances where he benefits from having SS.

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  #43  
Old August 4th, 2013, 10:30 AM
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Re: The Book of Scarlet Spider (Kaine Parker) ~ Vote for Tes

So using Swing Line makes him no longer stealthy? Not sure I'm a fan of that.

And the current text really leads to too many possible interpretation issues, IMO, with that "special power on this card" line. Hahma won't be the only one to bring up questions related to SS that won't be easy to hash out succinctly, IMO. Is there anyway we can simplify that line? Maybe limit it to attacking or using his Spider-Stingers 9 special power? Maybe limit it to just when he defends against attacks (theme being that he is engaged and attacked, so his position is given away). He'd hate ranged squads and multiple attackers, sure, but I'm OK with that if you are.

The first suggestion I made there might work best, though. Seems silly to penalize him for using his Swing Line, though.

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  #44  
Old August 4th, 2013, 02:04 PM
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Re: The Book of Scarlet Spider (Kaine Parker) ~ Vote for Tes

I liked him either having to choose to move 4 spaces with "flying", or 6 with being invisible afterwards. Guess that's just me.

Otherwise we'll just specify if he attacks or uses stingers. (Or if we keep swing line, just say any special power except for SuperStrength).

Shouldn't be a hard change, whatever people like.
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  #45  
Old August 4th, 2013, 05:23 PM
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Re: The Book of Scarlet Spider (Kaine Parker) ~ Vote for Tes

Game strategy/mechanics wise, I liked the idea of the Swing or Stealth choice, but I have to agree with Bats that thematically Swing line shouldn't penalise his stealthy-ness.
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  #46  
Old August 4th, 2013, 05:32 PM
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Re: The Book of Scarlet Spider (Kaine Parker) ~ Vote for Tes

Quote:
Before moving, you may place the black Stealth Marker on this card. While the Stealth Marker is on this card, Scarlet Spider can move through all figures and obstacles such as ruins and is never attacked when leaving an engagement. Scarlet Spider cannot be targeted by opponents' non-adjacent figures for any attack or for any opponents' special powers that require clear sight. If Scarlet Spider attacks or uses his Spider-Stingers special ability, remove the Stealth Marker from this card.
Alright, so is this all he needs, then?

Any way I can convince you to switch your vote, Quozl? Adding one defense and dropping a d20 roll down 2 isn't that huge a deal (Especially considering he only really uses his Stingers against people who could otherwise avoid wounds, his attack of 6 is much more useful). Like I said, I'm really confident it won't change the projected cost too much, and playtesting phase is meant to nail down costs!
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  #47  
Old August 4th, 2013, 05:57 PM
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Re: The Book of Scarlet Spider (Kaine Parker) ~ Vote for Tes

What about:

Quote:
...If Scarlet Spider rolls attacks or defense dice, remove the Stealth Marker from this card.
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  #48  
Old August 4th, 2013, 06:02 PM
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Re: The Book of Scarlet Spider (Kaine Parker) ~ Vote for Tes

Quote:
Originally Posted by A3n View Post
What about:

Quote:
...If Scarlet Spider rolls attacks or defense dice, remove the Stealth Marker from this card.
I personally would much rather have him not nerfed by squads. The whole reason I gave him the invisibility was so he could sneak around the army to assassinate a key figure. Not really a point if anybody could just remove his invisibility whenever they wanted. By specifying only his stingers we got rid of the Superstrength problem.
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