Truth's Custom Units - Revisting and Revamping

[truth]

Originally Posted by Sherman Davies

Of course, the fact that Truth now works for WotC means that people can now scour this thread for hints as to what might be in upcoming waves.

I've dipped into old customs of mine here and there when working on official units. Brave Arrow's tracking theme and power found its origins here:



But I wouldn't count of finding too many hints around here.

[Nadom]

Originally Posted by truth

I've dipped into old customs of mine here and there when working on official units. Brave Arrow's tracking theme and power found its origins here:



But I wouldn't count of finding too many hints around here.

Not to mention a little Otonashi's "Attack the Wild" in there, as well.

[reapersaurus]

1) The statements I mentioned are common sense.
I'm not suggesting that every analysis point I make is common sense, but I will adamantly argue that those 2 are common sense
a - that it is very sommon to have a situation where there is a dangerous ranged unit aways away from your main grouped melee force that if Agent Bale could swap positions of it could dramatically change the outcome of the battle, 2 fold and
b) - that Sworgwen will have early activation where he (it?) has to move up from the back starting position where he can "freely" try to Bubble friendly units if he wants.

2) I'm not going to playtest for hours with competetive players from someone else's custom units.
I don't even do that with mine - don't have the time.
That is simply asking too much of a person who gives of their knowledge and skills, to require them to spend hours of playtesting just to give a reasoned opinion based on common gameplay situations.
Frankly, I'm shocked and disappointed you would require that of me or anyone else that tries to help you guys out by giving a different perspective of your HS works.
Playtesting is lots of time, and you have to have competetive players that know what they're doing or there is no point. I do not have that luxury. I guarantee that the designers of this game don't playtest the majority of their units. That's why they have playtesters, to spend the time to do that aspect. Go ahead and ask the designers how much is changed in the units once it gets to the playtest phase - I think you may just be surprised to find out that many of them don't change once they reach that phase. How? Because they have been extensively thought-out, by people that know the game and the basic HS power-level and game strategies.

3) I play plenty enough to render these supported-by-examples opinions.
I don't play every day, or every weekend, but I sure play plenty enough for you not to dismiss my reasoned analysis because I apparently don;t f-ing play enough for YOUR qualifications. Frankly, that disappoints me again and actually pisses me off.

4) QWuestion my common sense all you want, but it is right out there in back and white.
Dodge my examples and don;t answer my questions if you want, but don;t you dare think that you have addressed my points, or even resoplved anything.
For example:
The 2 common sense situations about these 2 units ARE straightforward. How you can;t see them, and CONTINUALLY avoid replying to them, is baffling to me.
Further, you completely dodged my direct questions to you about how you feel about analysing customs:
Do you have a mandate about how many playtests are required before considering the unit analysis?
If so, how ,many platests do you require before considering them? What playtest environment is required before you consider them?

These are direct questions grungebob that are critical to the HS customs analysis community (I.e. you, me, and any other person that contributes to customs efforts with suggestions).

Please answer these questions. Don;t avoid them by attacking my credibility personally and calling them "broad negative statements". This ill becomes you, and never would have been done by the grungebob I remember.

[Grungebob]

What I am saying is that there are two types of input. One based upon a hunch and another based upon playtesting. I find that the advice offered based upon hunches is for the most part decent, but should be taken as inferior to suggestions and observations based upon playtest results.

[Jason]

Sorgwen is an absolute BOMB. 110 is insanely low. So let me get this right, for 110 points she gets a 30% chance at controlling the opponent's Q9, Nilfheim, or Braxas and ALSO could continually keep using that Hero turn after turn after turn forcing your opponent to Kill their Best unit PLUS crushing important support units that until then had been safe behind their enemy lines? With a 16-20 roll being needed on average it would only take 2 tries to pull off her ability on an enemy Hero. This isn't even mentioning her crazy 6 range, 5 life, 5 movement, 3 attack, 3 defense.

If I am reading her powers right 110 isn't remotely close to cost. I'd easily pay 200 for a Bomb like that

(I am assuming the bubble on the oppnonent stays there since nothing in the power talks about removing it)

[Grungebob]

she does have to be alive to use the bubble and it does take orders. This is a toughy!!

[Jason]

If the Bubble stays on the opponent's figures and does not go away she should be costed over 200

[reapersaurus]

Originally Posted by Grungebob

What I am saying is that there are two types of input. One based upon a hunch and another based upon playtesting. I find that the advice offered based upon hunches is for the most part decent, but should be taken as inferior to suggestions and observations based upon playtest results.

If you had just said that, I would see that point and agree to a degree.

You still haven;t addressed the direct questions, or qualified what kind of playtesting is required for you to consider it quality feedback that would affect your minds-eye's opinion of a particular unit.

You are free to not qualify your criteria, but it would make your case stronger and certainly clearer if you got across what requirements you have.

Everyone must realize that until customs creators have a group of experienced platesters that will put lots of time and scenarios to throw at their customs efforts, we are ALWAYS dependant on mental analysis of custom units, and always have been.

Grungebobm, your recent posts seem to indicate that you are either not OK with that, never realized that, or have changed your mind about it since it's always been this way.

And my 2 common sense observations are still just as valid as they always have been. *big wink*

[Fallen Templar]

Truth what font and size do you happen to use for your cards

[truth]

Originally Posted by Fallen Templar

Truth what font and size do you happen to use for your cards

It dosn't really matter as font size is relative to the size of card template your working with. My working card templates are much bigger than the jpgs I upload and the templates most use.

Odds say that it will take around 3 tries for SorGwen to bubble someone. That's three turns out on top of enemy lines. Once he does bubble someone he's then got to spend more turns running to saftey or stay out ontop of enemy lines. Anyway you cut it, your opponent is an absolute moron if they allow SorGwen to do ALL of this without challange. At MOST he's worth 140 points, but I believe he's good to go at 110. Playing to mind bubble an enemy figure makes him a gamble unit. Like so many of the units in heroscape there are times when he does well over his points in damage for his team. And there are other times where he will flop completely and do no good at all. (Like Sudema has done for me EVERY single time I've played her.)

[Jason]

-The odds of it working within 2 rounds is 44% which is pretty good. After the bubble works you won't have to move SorGwen around since you can use the Uber figure you control to wipe out any nearby units that could potentially attack.

-Comparing to Sudema

*More life, better attack, better range, same movement, same defense PLUS likely bonding early in the game PLUS Cheaper than Sudema PLUS arguably a better ability:

-1st the ability allows for a limited bonding

-2nd in many cases controlling the enemy is more important than destroying it since then you could use that piece to attack your opponent's other figures. This not only kills the opponent's other pieces but also protects yours from damage.

The question isn't whether she is better than Sudema but how much more expensive. I think 200ish is about right

[truth]

Originally Posted by Jason

-The odds of it working within 2 rounds is 44% which is pretty good. After the bubble works you won't have to move SorGwen around since you can use the Uber figure you control to wipe out any nearby units that could potentially attack.

-Comparing to Sudema

*More life, better attack, better range, same movement, same defense PLUS likely bonding early in the game PLUS Cheaper than Sudema PLUS arguably a better ability:

-1st the ability allows for a limited bonding

-2nd in many cases controlling the enemy is more important than destroying it since then you could use that piece to attack your opponent's other figures. This not only kills the opponent's other pieces but also protects yours from damage.

The question isn't whether she is better than Sudema but how much more expensive. I think 200ish is about right

By the way your talking you don't seem to understand this units power. He dosn't posess full control. If the unit he's bubbled stays close to take out other enemies your oppenent can just put markers on that unit and smack SorGwen down with it. Your wrong about it being better than a straight out kill of an uber powerful unit because that same unit he takes control of can easily turn on him and destroy him and then all of that time and set up bubbling is for naught. Even if he bubbles the most expensive unit in the game: Jouton. I don't see Jouton doing more than 110 points of damage in the time it takes your opponent to whack you over the head. Unless your opponent has moved Jouton forward all the way into enemy territory without and support. And if your opponent did that knowing what SorGwen can do, then he's an idiot. Find yourself smarter people to play with, it's more of a challange.