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  #253  
Old August 18th, 2015, 12:31 AM
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Re: The G.I. Joe Project

I would really like to help out with this project. Would you object if I did some playtests for you? I know you are trying to level with C3G figures, so those would be the baseline tests. Anything you would want to see or not see done?

Or is there something else you need/want to have done instead of tests?

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  #254  
Old August 18th, 2015, 01:24 AM
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Re: The G.I. Joe Project

That would actually be fantastic! Yeah, I'm using the C3G units for testing purposes.

I'm feeling pretty comfortable with the following cards but a second set of eyes would never hurt if you want to give any of them a run through.

Destro (180 points)
Baroness (110 points)
Roadblock (160 points)
Stalker (140 points)

Then these two cards I think are close but need more tests to confirm.

Gung Ho (130 points)
Snake Eyes (235 points)

If you felt like taking on a design I have not yet tested myself, Serpentor, Cobra Commander, & Beachhead are all ready to go. Just don't bother with the hero and squad tests for any of them as all three require allies to be effective. So just run like 2 or 3 team tests and see how they play. If the mechanics are sound then we can start adjusting the points up or down based on how well they performed.
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  #255  
Old August 18th, 2015, 08:50 AM
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Re: The G.I. Joe Project

Additional play test would be great so you can finalize some of these and I can get back to making cards...
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  #256  
Old August 20th, 2015, 08:52 PM
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Re: The G.I. Joe Project

Spoiler Alert!

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
NAME OF THE TEST UNIT (Storm Shadow)
Hero Tests
- Does it pass, Yes or No? yes
- What should be the unit's point value? Not sure if he is worth as much as Snake Eyes as it became evident that the range 5 double attack helps Snake Eyes deal with other ranged units while Strom Shadow is left chasing them down. Maybe 225 is the spot for him?
- Give a brief overview. Im going to run Storm Shadow through a set of 230-240 point figures to see how he stacks up. Ill even use some of the same figures Snake Eyes was tested vs. to see if the results are similar or not.
Map: Yellowstone National Park
Spoiler Alert!

Army Test 1
- Does it pass, Yes or No? yes
- What should be the unit's point value? 235 seems okay
- Give a brief overview. Im going to give Storm Shadow a shot at 235 in the team test just to see if having allies around would help him. Gave him Kingpin to bond with and sent him up vs. some Outlaws.
Map: Yellowstone National Park
Units: Strom Shadow@235, Kingpin, Lady Deathstrike, Bullseye, Hired Guns (1000) vs. Scandal Savage, Bane, Catman, Deadshot, Parademon, Joker II (1000)
Spoiler Alert!

Recap: First game was a lopsided affair (see above) so I restarted, still in that game Storm Shadow dealt 2W to Joker, then one shot killed Deadshot, then dealt 2W to Bane before I called the game. The dice were just really favoring the Kingpin team. I tried some different tactics for the Outlaws in the rematch, which somewhat worked out and things were feeling fairly even when suddenly the dice got hot for the Outlaws and they threw down a bunch of skulls for a big turn of events. Storm Shadow in particular got dropped suddenly out of nowhere, taking 4W in a single attack. He did put 2Ws on Joker in 2 different attacks and had joker laugh it off to end his turn both times before the 2nd attack. He also put 2Ws on Scandal Savage who kept his att. limited to 1W and killed a Hired Gun while under Jokers control. This was a pretty favorable match up for him though as only Deadshot had a ranged attack that could be used to avoid the autoshield on def. The OM flex gained from being an Assassin in a Kingpin army along with the occasional team up with Kingpin for an att. of 5 after his two att. of 3+1 certainly makes Storm Shadow a little more formidable than he was in the individual tests, although that really should be accounted for on Kingpins card.
_____________________________________________________________
Army Test 2
- Does it pass, Yes or No? yes
- What should be the unit's point value? IDK, this one was over rather quickly.
- Give a brief overview. Trying Strom Shadow out at 225 in a 4 on 4 match, no flying or jumping, just a fight to see who comes out on top.
Map: Yellowstone National Park
Units: Storm Shadow@225, Snake Eyes@235, Azrael, Huntress (800) vs. Wrecking Crew (800)
Spoiler Alert!

Recap: The Wrecking Crew wrecked shop in this one. After not hitting the d20for any extra turns in the opening round, the d20 heated up later when the battle was raging for a serious beat down. They all had some big attack rolls mixed in, allowing them to make short work of their opponents. Storm Shadow rolled poorly on defense and was taken out before he could really do anything, his only two attacks were both blocked. Snake Eyes was the last man standing and tried to avenge his fallen comrades by quickly taking out the wounded Thunderball and Piledriver when his own attack dice got hot and they didnt roll well on defense, but that was as far as he got. The Wrecking crew had a run of 4 turns in a row that put him down with the help of some poor def. rolls.
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  #257  
Old August 20th, 2015, 09:06 PM
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Re: The G.I. Joe Project

Storm Shadow felt a little weaker than Snake Eyes after the last set of hero tests. While he gets two attacks every round and Snake Eyes sometime only gets one, the ranged attack that Snake Eyes gets really is significant plus he has a little bit of protection from ranged attackers thanks to his Move with the Wind power. Storm Shadow has proven to be quite deadly when facing figures with 5 def. or lower, but struggles once the defense gets higher than that. He is most vulnerable to ranged attackers as his auto shield and counterstrike power can then be avoided. His class of assassin has more beneficial synergy though, where as Snake Eyes commando synergy will be limited. So I'm thinking he is a 225 -235 point figure right now but I have not settled on anything as of yet. Maybe just split the difference again and go with 230.

@fret_gurglo , if you feel up to taking Storm Shadow for a spin I would appreciated having another opinion on where he stacks up points wise.
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  #258  
Old August 22nd, 2015, 09:21 PM
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Re: The G.I. Joe Project

Finished one test with Storm Shadow. Should be able to do another tonight or tomorrow. I have not played with Snake Eyes yet so I can't do any comparison, but can definitely agree that he is weak against ranged units and his class of Assassin might be his greatest asset. Will provide more input when second games is completed.

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  #259  
Old August 23rd, 2015, 04:03 PM
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Re: The G.I. Joe Project

C3G STANDARD PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE PLAYTEST UNIT: StormShadow

Army Test

Map:Arctic Redoubt

Units:Hand Ninjas x3 (255), Storm Shadow (235), Talia al Ghul (110) (600)vs Conan (200), Star-Lord (250), Venom(150) (600)

Powers Used:

Combat Dexterity: 3 times
Throwing Star Special Attack: 0 times
Arashikage:
Leaving Engagements: 3 times
+1 Skull: 6 times
+1 Shield: 0 times
3+ Shields = Wound: 0 times
Damage from Special Attack: 0 wounds
Damage from Normal Attack: 4 wounds (Conan)

Spoiler Alert!




___________________________________________________________


Map:Arctic Redoubt

Units:Black Tarantula (300), Intergang Agents x 2 (240), Kingpin (220), Storm Shadow (235) (995) vs Brides of Dracula (110), Dracula (490), Living Mummy (200), Vampire Minions x2 (180) (980)

Powers Used:

Combat Dexterity: 6 times
Throwing Star Special Attack: 3 times
Arashikage:
Leaving Engagements: 1 time
+1 Skull: 12 times
+1 Shield: 3 times
3+ Shields = Wound: 0 times
Damage from Special Attack: 0 wounds
Damage from Normal Attack: 10 wounds

Spoiler Alert!



___________________________________________________________



THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT'S COST, BALANCE, & DRAFTABILITY: I think with the right build that Storm Shadow should be increased in cost, maybe to 250. The combination of Arashikage ClanNinja with Combat Dexterity is extremely powerful. His only really draw back is that he does tend to die easy. The second game showed that with some healing powers, he can last longer and prove to be a very deadly force.

GENERAL THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT: The synergy offered from being an Assassin is HUGE. However I do not know how much Assassin bonding there is in GI Joe. I know the attempt to maintain balance with C3G,and I like and support this idea, however I prefer theme over strategy. With that said, I do not believe Storm Shadow will receive any Assassin support from within Cobra. Also his Throwing Star SA seemed fairly ineffective. Perhaps it could be used to take out squads, but in the case with the Vampire Minions, they only needed 1 shield to block it.

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  #260  
Old August 23rd, 2015, 04:54 PM
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Re: The G.I. Joe Project

Thanks for the tests and feedback Fret! The Throwing Stars certainly have limited use and effectiveness (which seems appropriate when dealing with superheroes) but they have surprised me for a wound every once in a while and give you something to do when just out of melee range. Also sometime a SA can be handy to have. Seeing him get two wins at 235 makes me feel better about leaving him at 235. 250 just seems like too much to me based on my tests, he can fall to any strong ranged attacker fairly easily, but I'll take another look at other 250 point figures for a comparison.
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  #261  
Old August 23rd, 2015, 05:47 PM
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Re: The G.I. Joe Project

Fret makes a good point and perhaps dropping the Assassin would be a good idea...don't want it price to arbitrarily be driven up to where he isn't worth the points in the GIJOE world...

on the throwing star angle you can justifiably push it to attacks of 3 thematically it should be on par with Batarangs I'd think. It may help him against ranged squads to use that since his biggest weakness is the ranged attackers.
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  #262  
Old August 24th, 2015, 12:07 AM
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Re: The G.I. Joe Project

I could go back to Ninja for him but I definitely want to do a Storm Shadow II (w/bow) for his time when he left Cobra and teamed up with the Joes so I was kind of saving Ninja for that version of him. I'm happy with the ninja starts at 2 att. w/-1 to def., that is pretty similar to the bat-a-rang straight 3 att. They really are just there to take out street thugs and the like with 3 or 4 def. 2 att. vs. 2 or 3 def., 3 times can be effective.
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  #263  
Old August 24th, 2015, 01:32 AM
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Re: The G.I. Joe Project

Quote:
Originally Posted by japes View Post
Fret makes a good point and perhaps dropping the Assassin would be a good idea...don't want it price to arbitrarily be driven up to where he isn't worth the points in the GIJOE world...

on the throwing star angle you can justifiably push it to attacks of 3 thematically it should be on par with Batarangs I'd think. It may help him against ranged squads to use that since his biggest weakness is the ranged attackers.

This would dramatically decrease his synergy and therefore cost, but I think its a good thing. I don't know where that would end him up, but probably around 220-230. Even as a ninja he can still bond with Hand Ninjas and Ra's al Ghul, but I don't think there is anyone else.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Yodaking View Post
I could go back to Ninja for him but I definitely want to do a Storm Shadow II (w/bow) for his time when he left Cobra and teamed up with the Joes so I was kind of saving Ninja for that version of him. I'm happy with the ninja starts at 2 att. w/-1 to def., that is pretty similar to the bat-a-rang straight 3 att. They really are just there to take out street thugs and the like with 3 or 4 def. 2 att. vs. 2 or 3 def., 3 times can be effective.
I agree that his SA should stay as is. It is not an overly effective SA but should be great for clearing out squads. It just so happened that the squads chosen in that playtest had a bonus to ranged attacks.

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  #264  
Old August 24th, 2015, 01:34 AM
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Re: The G.I. Joe Project

I will see if I can get a chance to run Snake Eyes next

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