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  #601  
Old November 4th, 2007, 11:44 AM
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I'm way old, so I don't know exactly what you mean, in this context, by "nerf." Would you explain that for me, please? Thanks.
Nerf
I agree. Rev needs a nerf.

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(I've also played many matches with great, fun people who were using Q9. So using Q9 doesn't make you a tool. But being a tool sure seems to make you use Q9.)
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  #602  
Old November 6th, 2007, 07:04 AM
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Anyone else thing Retarius is underranked? I think he deserves a B like Crixius. He often takes out well worth his points even if he doesn't net trip.
However it...(read statement in sig.)

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  #603  
Old November 6th, 2007, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Metaknight
Anyone else thing Retarius is underranked? I think he deserves a B like Crixius. He often takes out well worth his points even if he doesn't net trip.
However it...(read statement in sig.)
No, he doesn't. You play with stupid opponents if he does. He just dies wayy too fast, unlike Crixus. Plus, chances are he'll get his Net Trip rolls on lone squad members which he can kill in one hit anyways (your opponent must be a moron if he lets Retarius get that close to his hero). Remember, this is assuming Competetive Maps, and on those, Retarius doesn't stand a chance.

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  #604  
Old November 6th, 2007, 11:35 AM
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A diffrent thing could be said if you play smart he always dies at the end half of the game when I play with him but he usally take his amount of points first. You may be using him wrong I find he is more of a clean up unit than a Shark yes he is going to die if you send him straight into battle.

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  #605  
Old November 6th, 2007, 02:38 PM
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Sorry, I'm not watching this thread and just noticed that I started a discussion.

The Marro Stingers is one of the most brutal ranged squads to date. Why? They are 1) common, 2) 60 points, 3) have a ranged attack of 3 (which can be boosted to 4) and 4) have a defense of 3.

Microcorp can't touch them - you have a lower base attack, so you're paying 40 points for water movement, 2 hexes of range, and stealth armor that only works 25% of the time. I'd rather have 5 stingers than 3 Microcorp, even if I didn't get stinger drain. Only on specialized (water) maps and lucky D20 rolls will Microcorp outshine the Stingers...but if you're D20 is rolling well, the Stingers will be shooting at range with 4 attack dice anyway!

Tagawa Samurai Archers cost 5 points more. IMO, stinger drain is far more useful than counter strike on a ranged squad. Additionally, 1 more attack die is far more valuable than 1 range. So you pay 5 points for a worse unit (excluding what the new Shogun might do to improve the archers).

Are they as good as the 4th Mass. Line? Stingers cost 10 points less and can be mixed with ANY army, while maintaining their 3 defense. Plus they don't have to stand still to shoot with 3 dice, so your firepower range is generally better. The one (big) advantage of the 4th Mass. is that they get to fire with 4 figures. The disadvantage is that you practically have to build an army around the 4th Mass to use them effectively. 4th Mass are probably as powerful as the Stingers, but the Stingers are far more accessible to anyone who feels like throwing them into their army. This is the "no strings attached" that GaryLASQ was talking about.

I still dislike playing against the Krav Maga more than any other squad created because they are as annoying as all get out to kill. In fact, I personally think the game would be better without Krav Maga. In spite of this, I think the Stingers generally have more firepower since, being common, if you lose a figure you can bring in the backups - and that's not even taking stinger drain into account. Krav firepower is pretty deadly itself and has a bit longer range, but at 40 more they don't have the firepower per point of the Stingers.

Will this lower the ranking of other squads? Not necessarily. Spider_poison's rankings may be more about "absolute" usefulness than relative ranking - though all of the rankings must be at least somewhat relative to others. What I can say is that I would be very surprised if we don't see the Stingers on the A+ list when they get ranked.
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  #606  
Old November 6th, 2007, 02:45 PM
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Also, I agree that Crixus is far superior to Retiarius.
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  #607  
Old November 6th, 2007, 07:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shades fan
A diffrent thing could be said if you play smart he always dies at the end half of the game when I play with him but he usally take his amount of points first. You may be using him wrong I find he is more of a clean up unit than a Shark yes he is going to die if you send him straight into battle.
If I'm using him as a clean up unit, why not use KAEMON AWA, king of clean up? Retarius just pales in comparison to anything you compare him with. Crixus outbests him in survivability, Kaemon beats him in clean up, the Warden beats him in support... really, compare him to similarily priced units, and it's not even close. Plus, even if I do send him out as clean up, chances are that most of the other clean up units out there will kill him anyways. Guilty can outgun him before he gets to him, Kaemon the same thing, and with double attack, and melee squads still alive get multiple attacks on him...

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  #608  
Old November 6th, 2007, 08:29 PM
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Always the one to disagree with me Bloody

I keep in the starting zone 'til late game when everyone on the board is scattered and there is less range. Then I said him in slowly, like I'm not planning anything for him and just leisurely move him along. Then I get him close to an enemy and kill. I don't use him for clean up necessarily, but just late game like I said.

Retarius' ability can help him better take out units that are much higher costed then him. He can take out Q9! He is the ultimate Q9 counter in my games. The trouble is getting to him, but you can risk a few wounds. He can kill Mimring, Subakna, and units way higher points in 1 turn if your even a little lucky... He's a hero killer or a killer of high defense unis, Sentinals, Minions, Deathwalker, he's pretty awesome!

However, it does all depend on the other variables. Take them away and you have this wicked aweseme unit...

Kaemon Awa is 30 more points, I often have 90 and choose him over all else!

My opponents are not dumb, whatsoever, I just happen to be good at using melee units.

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  #609  
Old November 6th, 2007, 08:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Metaknight
Always the one to disagree with me Bloody

I keep in the starting zone 'til late game when everyone on the board is scattered and there is less range. Then I said him in slowly, like I'm not planning anything for him and just leisurely move him along. Then I get him close to an enemy and kill. I don't use him for clean up necessarily, but just late game like I said.

Retarius' ability can help him better take out units that are much higher costed then him. He can take out Q9! He is the ultimate Q9 counter in my games. The trouble is getting to him, but you can risk a few wounds. He can kill Mimring, Subakna, and units way higher points in 1 turn if your even a little lucky... He's a hero killer or a killer of high defense unis, Sentinals, Minions, Deathwalker, he's pretty awesome!

However, it does all depend on the other variables. Take them away and you have this wicked aweseme unit...

Kaemon Awa is 30 more points, I often have 90 and choose him over all else!

My opponents are not dumb, whatsoever, I just happen to be good at using melee units.
If Retarius is the Ultimate Q9 counter in your game, your opponents ARE dumb, no offense. Most players have trouble even GETTING Retarius close enough. I would gladly spend 30 more points for Kaemon - you just get so much more out of Kaemon then you do Retarius. Really, it's the same reason you don't see Q10 used all that much. No, he cannot kill Su-Bak-Na and Mimring in one turn, because again, your opponents are morons - he'll never even get to Mimring, as Mimring will just circle the board and kill you by Fireline. Su-Bak-Na is going to be the one killing you in one turn - you have the same defense, but Su-Bak-Na has 1 more life and 2 more attack, and he'll probably get height over you to boot, so if he rolls even 5 skulls, chances are you are SCREWED. In my games, he couldn't even survive 2 hits from Krug with Krug at 4 wounds, and Retarius only did 2 damage, not enough to earn his points worth. Use him for endgame? He'd get slaughtered by the units I usually use for endgame, aka stuff like melee squads that get multiple attacks on him that will end his life quickly, Tor-Kul-Na, Guilty, and all that stuff. I play most of my games on competetive maps, so I know what I'm talking about. He just isn't worth it.
Also, I think our disagreements happen because we have ridiculously different points of view. Nothing personal, it's just we have entirely different views on this kind of stuff.

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  #610  
Old November 6th, 2007, 11:01 PM
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Remember Q9 has a Range of 8 if you put two order markers on Retarius that is a move of ten and you can attack,chances are that if you play him like Metaknight does Q9 will all ready have at least one wound one him because it is inevitable.

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  #611  
Old November 6th, 2007, 11:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shades fan
Remember Q9 has a Range of 8 if you put two order markers on Retarius that is a move of ten and you can attack,chances are that if you play him like Metaknight does Q9 will all ready have at least one wound one him because it is inevitable.
Of course, a good Q9 player will by the time Retarius gets close have killed Ret already, so that's moot.

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  #612  
Old November 7th, 2007, 12:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bloody the Marro Stinger
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shades fan
Remember Q9 has a Range of 8 if you put two order markers on Retarius that is a move of ten and you can attack,chances are that if you play him like Metaknight does Q9 will all ready have at least one wound one him because it is inevitable.
Of course, a good Q9 player will by the time Retarius gets close have killed Ret already, so that's moot.
Exactly. If it takes 2 order markers for Retiarius to reach Q9, guess what? By that second order marker your opponent will have moved Q9 out of range and shot him again.

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