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Competitive Armies Discussion Discuss, critique, and build ideas for tournament-caliber armies.


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  #1  
Old April 29th, 2009, 03:34 PM
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Army Point "Sweet Spot".

!!!Warning!!! Long Winded Theoryscape Follows:

I was thinking about the importance of synergy in heroscape, both for actual game play and perceived appearance of one's army. When considering one hero with two synergious common squads I noticed a pattern related to the points develop.

I did not consider range staples like the 4th and 10th since they really don't have a hero linked to them, and really you don't need a reason to draft them beyond their own ability to fit into any army build. I also left out the Elves, Vampires, Samurai and Marro since these armies work in a very different way then hero/squad teams. I only considered adding 2 commons since this is the most likely number of common squads drafted based on known Statistics, wave availability and start zone and total point limits.

Consider:
~200
Parmenio +2 Sacred Band = 190
Ne-Gok-Sa +2 Marro Drones = 190
Venoc Warlord +2 Vipers =200
Finn/Thorgrim +2 Knights = 220
Khosumet +2 Anubian wolves = 225

~250-300
Sir Denrick +2 Knights = 240
Venoc Warlord + 2 Armoc Vipers = 250
Grimnak +2 Heavy Grut= 260
Alistair +2 MacDirk = 270
Master Woo +2 M
Concan +2 Sentinels = 300
Me-Burq-Sa +2 Grok Riders = 310

~400
Empress Kiova +2 Imperium = 370
Sir Dupuis + 2 Templar = 390
Taelord +2 Min

On the low end we have the Greeks and the high end Taelord. Both "teams" never really show up even though they were clearly designed to be played this way. In fact the Templars and Imperium suffer the same problem as Taelord since they just cost too much compared to other teams on the list at close to ~400 points. The wolves and vipers suffer the same fate as the Greeks since they cost too little at ~200 not being very effective against stronger units. Sentinels, Monks and MacDirks are solid team’s options at the ~300 mark.

Exceptions to this seem to be the Knights and the Grok's. The knights just seem to be a solid unit when coupled with the Vikings. The Groks
On the other hand are too vulnerable to be reliable. Some teams however appear to have a second ranged squad included in their design. Again the 300 point mark appears ideal while 400 are excessive.

Consider:
~300
Tornak +2 Arrow Gruts +2 Blade Gruts = 260
Marcus +2 Romans +2 Roman Archers = 310
~400
Major X17 +2 Blastatrons +2 Gladiatr
Kato +2 yari +2 harquebus = 400
Spartacus + 2 common Gladiator = ~400

The Gruts and Romans are both well rounded units leaving lots of room for additional units to complete the mix. On the other hand Major X17 seems redundant and Kato is still a high price to pay. This suggest that even if a gladiator common squad was added in wave 9 the price would still be too high to make Spartacus competitive.

Note with the ~300 point teams it is easy to fit in a dragon, unique squad or fill up on ranged units to make a solid 500 point competitive army. At the 200 point mark there is almost too much room requiring too many cards for order marker placement and not enough heavy hitters to justify filling up on ranged units. With the 400 there is little room to add additional units creating a bit of a house of cards that may collapse with the loss of the hero.

Finally this accounts for the dust collecting heroes like the Cowboys, Ninjas, Deathwalkers and Gladiators. These heroes don't have squads linked to them making it difficult to justify their presence in an army other than as filler.


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Last edited by wriggz; May 2nd, 2009 at 10:23 AM. Reason: Drones, Druge, Warriors... They all look the same to me.
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  #2  
Old April 29th, 2009, 05:00 PM
Oestedb Oestedb is offline
 
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Re: Army Point "Sweet Spot".

I think this is definitely a good discussion point. As far as the Groks go, I think you have to analyze how well a common squad does on their own rather than how they do with a synergous hero. The Groks without Me-Burq-Sa are not very good especially when you start multiplying the number of squads. They lose not to more powerful figured, but to superior numbers. That is why the Knights are so good. 70 points for four figures that have four defense and three attack is one of the most unbeatable prices in the game. Point for point, Me-Burq-Sa is one of the best figures in the game, but because the common squad he works with is overpriced, he just doesn't have the numbers to back him up like Sir Denrick or Sir Gilbert Does. As for the 4th and 10th, don't forget Marcus. He may not bond with them in the traditional sense, but they benefit greatly from his extra move and attack. Synergy definitely works beyond just bonding. Sometimes, the roles units have for your army are what makes them synergous, not special linking abilities on cards.
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Old May 1st, 2009, 10:10 PM
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Re: Army Point "Sweet Spot".

i think these are some good starts
300-
sbn,2xstingers 280
hive,2xstingers 280

200-
sbn,2xnagrubs 220
syvarris,theracus,izumi 200
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Old May 2nd, 2009, 01:42 AM
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Re: Army Point "Sweet Spot".

Ne-Gok-Sa +2 Marro Warriors = 190

Thats all fine and dandy but... No it's not! Does Unique mean anything? (One per army )

On the same topic, top... this!

5X Krav Maga Agents
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Old June 17th, 2009, 07:50 AM
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Re: Army Point "Sweet Spot".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thorgrim View Post
Ne-Gok-Sa +2 Marro Warriors = 190

Thats all fine and dandy but... No it's not! Does Unique mean anything? (One per army )

On the same topic, top... this!

5X Krav Maga Agents
Unique means you can't have more than one of that card. For example, you can only have 1 squad of marro warriors or KMA. Commons allow you to have as much as you want, although it costs additional for every extra squad.

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Old June 17th, 2009, 09:19 AM
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Re: Army Point "Sweet Spot".

Quote:
Originally Posted by kpotassiumk19 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thorgrim View Post
Ne-Gok-Sa +2 Marro Warriors = 190

Thats all fine and dandy but... No it's not! Does Unique mean anything? (One per army )

On the same topic, top... this!

5X Krav Maga Agents
Unique means you can't have more than one of that card. For example, you can only have 1 squad of marro warriors or KMA. Commons allow you to have as much as you want, although it costs additional for every extra squad.


He knew what Unique means. He was using it to point out that the OP had formed in army of NGS and MWS x2.


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Old June 17th, 2009, 09:36 AM
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Re: Army Point "Sweet Spot".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oestedb View Post
I think this is definitely a good discussion point. As far as the Groks go, I think you have to analyze how well a common squad does on their own rather than how they do with a synergous hero. The Groks without Me-Burq-Sa are not very good especially when you start multiplying the number of squads.
Let's not forget Ne-Gok-Sa...he bonds with Groks too, if I recall, and a good army can be:

Grok Riders
MBS
NGS
Roman Legionnaires

It's got dual bonding and the Grokkies get a bunch of opportunity to stomp people.

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Old June 22nd, 2009, 05:23 PM
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Re: Army Point "Sweet Spot".

Im a bit confused as to the point you are trying to make. I don't understand what the thread is trying to say, which is unusual because usually I can get stuff that people say. Can someone enlighten me?

Edit: After reading this again, is this basically just a thread about the role that these bonding units play in Heroscape and how to assimilate them into a competitive army, and a little about whether or not they actually are used in a competitive armies?
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