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  #109  
Old September 19th, 2019, 02:32 AM
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Re: [Pod 0] HONORED SOUL-GUIDES (Lantern Geists) - Design

I think we had best look at the rulings for Revenant’s Tome to best decide that ruling, and if we even want to go down that path.

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  #110  
Old September 19th, 2019, 09:41 AM
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Re: [Pod 0] HONORED SOUL-GUIDES (Lantern Geists) - Design

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Originally Posted by flameslayer93 View Post
I think we had best look at the rulings for Revenant’s Tome to best decide that ruling, and if we even want to go down that path.
Revenant's Tome is an ugly thing. It's only sort of ok that it's ugly because it is very rare to have and quite special. That also means there are almost no rulings for it, since corner cases almost never happen.

One fundamental difference here is that Revenant's Tome does not give a turn, just an attack. That's all sorts of problematic in an of itself, but again, rare thing. It also specifically is unaffected by all special powers and glyphs while on the field (though that too is poorly defined).

Revenant's Tome is one of the worst things the ODs ever created, right up there with Charging Assault wording. It's really a "get away with it" because it's so rare thing. It definitely should not be reused on a unit.
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  #111  
Old September 22nd, 2019, 12:01 AM
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Re: [Pod 0] HONORED SOUL-GUIDES (Lantern Geists) - Design

WE could push back to design if the rules headaches are too weird.

Have we considered putting a Guide on a dead card, and letting the other one use that card's powers?
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  #112  
Old September 22nd, 2019, 12:10 AM
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Re: [Pod 0] HONORED SOUL-GUIDES (Lantern Geists) - Design

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Originally Posted by Pumpkin_King View Post
WE could push back to design if the rules headaches are too weird.

Have we considered putting a Guide on a dead card, and letting the other one use that card's powers?
I'm very hesitant to do anything that adds powers to another card so explicitly. Many Unique Hero powers were designed for heroes, after all, and could lead to confusing interactions when used by a squad. On the other hand, Unique Squads often have abilities unique to them--what happens if we let the Soul-Guides use Animated Material? What about Water Clone? Opening them up to use the abilities from another card sounds like it would be nearly impossible to implement without excessive R&Cs to me.

A more appealing alternative is to go the other way, and let them be placed on other cards in order to give some kind of an ability to those figures like normal spirits. I think that adding another power to a different card is really only feasible when we can control what the power is (although it'd still cause some potential wonkiness unless we limit it to Unique Heroes or the like, or just kept it simple to a stat boost like normal spirits).
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  #113  
Old September 22nd, 2019, 12:12 AM
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Re: [Pod 0] HONORED SOUL-GUIDES (Lantern Geists) - Design

Only heroes, then? It would only be the one remaining Soul Guide on the field using the power.

But then, that would make them less than useless if one is destroyed. Hmm.
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  #114  
Old September 22nd, 2019, 12:12 AM
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Re: [Pod 0] HONORED SOUL-GUIDES (Lantern Geists) - Design

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pumpkin_King View Post
WE could push back to design if the rules headaches are too weird.

Have we considered putting a Guide on a dead card, and letting the other one use that card's powers?
Gaining powers is probably also too much. We may be better off going back to the d20 chance of killing and accepting that not every Jandar unit is purely goody two shoes. *cough* Vikings *cough*

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  #115  
Old September 22nd, 2019, 12:14 AM
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Re: [Pod 0] HONORED SOUL-GUIDES (Lantern Geists) - Design

A much less thorny direction would be a simple stat buff. "Honored Soulguides get +1A/+1D for each destroyed unique hero in your army, to a maximum of +3" or somesuch. It would be a much less flashy design and an obvious endgame unit, but I don't mind unit roles being obvious in a Master Set.

There is also the problem that we can't just handwave the weird interactions with Spirit powers when Ob Nixilis might have one of his own. That isn't set in stone yet, and I wouldn't want that potential alone to drastically change the direction here, but it's worth noting regardless.

I think it is possible to make the current powerset work, but there's no guarantee we make the best unit from it. How excited are we about it now, a good ways out from when it was proposed?
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  #116  
Old September 22nd, 2019, 12:18 AM
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Re: [Pod 0] HONORED SOUL-GUIDES (Lantern Geists) - Design

The concept is really cool. Implementation is cool. Rules are not cool. Especially true when Ob Nixilis is possibly gonna have a spirit power anyway.

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  #117  
Old September 22nd, 2019, 01:35 AM
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Re: [Pod 0] HONORED SOUL-GUIDES (Lantern Geists) - Design

I'd like to keep this particular power in mind and set it on the back burner, and explore other abilities that hit the theme of a psychopomp. I'm sure we can brainstorm a couple ideas.
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  #118  
Old September 22nd, 2019, 12:19 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] HONORED SOUL-GUIDES (Lantern Geists) - Design

I've already stated my feelings on the complexity, but for reference: I think that this is a really cool design that players would have a lot of fun with. I'm not sure that it's worth breaking the game over, though: all of these issues need to have logical answers that make intuitive sense (or be rare enough that we can answer them in a R&C). This is also a very complex design rules-wise for a starter set, which is a big strike against it unless everything is intuitive IMO.

That said, if we wanted to keep the current direction, the best rules explanation that I can see right now is a ruling that only figures placed on the Honored Soul-Guides' card via Last Will can be revived. That solves the negative spirit aura that's been discussed for Ob Nixilus, although it does lead to a weird case of you having to choose if Finn is being placed for his attack spirit or for Last Will if he's within range. I'm not a big fan of this by any stretch of the imagination, but if we wanted to keep this current mechanic, I think it'd be a necessary ruling.

It does nothing to help with the issue of temporary control powers, though, which just like the spirits, are going to be included in this same box via Tetsuo Tyrell.
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  #119  
Old September 22nd, 2019, 12:39 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] HONORED SOUL-GUIDES (Lantern Geists) - Design

If we want to keep the Revenant’s Tome powerset, can we make it work without having the “placing figures on their card” aspect?
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  #120  
Old September 22nd, 2019, 03:27 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] HONORED SOUL-GUIDES (Lantern Geists) - Design

IS there an available token that they could place on another card?
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