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  #6469  
Old January 4th, 2015, 01:26 AM
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Re: Sports: NFL

The NFL season being over for both my buddy and myself, (Falcons and Browns fans, respectively), we found ourselves in an unexpectedly heated debate over the definition of a franchise quarterback, and it got to the point where I'm looking for outside opinions.

Being a die-hard Cleveland fan, I've never experienced a franchise quarterback first-hand, so my knowledge in the subject is admittedly limited. But when asked to decide whether or not a quarterback is worthy of the "franchise" tag, (pun intended), I figured that a "franchise" quarterback can only be one who goes enters the year without any question marks. Meaning, both the respective team and popular opinion begins each season without considering quarterback play as a potential pitfall.

Considering this point of view, and not looking at player contracts or tenure, I believe that there is only between 11 and 14 true franchise quarterbacks in the NFL this year. Which means that anywhere from 18 to 21 teams go through training camp without being able to fully expect consistently strong quarterback play that season, barring injury of course. My current list of definite "franchise quarterbacks" includes Brady, Roethlisberger, Luck, Peyton Manning, Rivers, Romo, Rodgers, Ryan, Brees, and Russell Wilson, with Flacco, Newton, Stafford and Eli on the bubble.

Am I really that far off on this idea? Should guys like Andy Dalton, Jay Cutler and Colin Kaepernick be considered franchise quarterbacks because their teams invested in them so heavily? Should rookies like Bortles, Carr and Bridgewater be penciled in as franchise quarterbacks after one year in the league. Can anyone confidently say that Ryan Tannehill will lead the dolphins to the playoffs this decade? What about Sam Bradford? Carson Palmer?

So what makes a franchise quarterback? Is my list that far off?

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  #6470  
Old January 4th, 2015, 02:43 AM
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Re: Sports: NFL

I don't think your list is that far off but because their is really only ~16 good QBs for 32 teams, any player that is viewed as having the potential to develop into a franchise QB is also tagged. You just can't afford to give up too quickly on a guy and see him go to another team and become an all star. Brees is a good example of a QB that just needed a little time to fully develop. I don't think you really know about a QB for sure until at least 3 season in and even then you may not yet know. RGIII looked like a franchise QB after his rookie year but now it looks like it could go either way. Cutler had so much potential but it is starting to look like he will never get over the hump. It is possible to win the SB without a franchise QB though, so even middle of the road QBs can hold a fair amount of value to a team if it is built to win games other ways. Having a guy that is not losing you games under center is better than having one that does.
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  #6471  
Old January 4th, 2015, 04:05 AM
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Re: Sports: NFL

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Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper View Post
New England is the class of the AFC this year. Every other team is significantly flawed. Ravens will need their A game and Pats will need their B game for the Ravens to win.
Sounds like a good game plan. How do we convince the Patriots to bring their B game? Harder still, how can we ensure the Ravens bring their A game?

I much prefer when the Ravens are the underdog. They tend to play much better when everyone expects them to lose.
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  #6472  
Old January 4th, 2015, 06:55 AM
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Re: Sports: NFL

Baltimore is exactly the team that I didn't want to see coming to NE next week.

Regardless of record, they always bring it when they play the Pats. Pats have a 10-3 home record in the playoffs and two of those losses are to the Ravens.

Ravens also have the recipe to beat the Pats, a d line that can pressure without having to blitz. If the o-line of the Pats is not up to the challenge, it could be a long night.

I do think that the Pats are the better team overall and if both teams play up to their ability they should win. Here's hoping they do.

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  #6473  
Old January 4th, 2015, 12:01 PM
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Re: Sports: NFL

Stafford has never beaten a winning team on the road, iirc. Romo has never won a playoff game. Flacco has more road playoff wins than any QB, ever, and just posted his fifth consecutive postseason qbr of 100+. Not a record, but close to it. I believe he has a winning record against your franchise QBs, and he's beaten them all in the playoffs when he's had the opportunity to do so (Manning, Luck, Brady, Rothlesberger). He has started a playoff game in six of his first seven seasons, an NFL record. As to injury, a criterion you mention, he has never missed a start.

Matty "Ice" and many others on your list have done less with more. You can keep your gaudy passing numbers, thank you, I'll take the wins. A list of current NFL "franchise" QBs without his name is at best incomplete.

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  #6474  
Old January 4th, 2015, 12:46 PM
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Re: Sports: NFL

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Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper View Post
Romo has never won a playoff game.
Slow down there, he is 1-3 in playoff games. The fact that you, as an NFL fan, think he hasn't won in the post season at all speaks volumes about how completely skewed his narrative has become. The only thing that changes it is winning in the playoffs, but apparently more than one win is required to do so.

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  #6475  
Old January 4th, 2015, 01:16 PM
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Re: Sports: NFL

Quite right. I have nothing against the Boys and this may be their year. They've got it all and are the most complete team in the NFL. My point was that if Romo is on a list of "franchise" QBs, Flacco is as well. Not that Romo doesn't belong.

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  #6476  
Old January 4th, 2015, 02:32 PM
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Re: Sports: NFL

Quote:
Originally Posted by R˙chean View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper View Post
Romo has never won a playoff game.
Slow down there, he is 1-3 in playoff games. The fact that you, as an NFL fan, think he hasn't won in the post season at all speaks volumes about how completely skewed his narrative has become. The only thing that changes it is winning in the playoffs, but apparently more than one win is required to do so.
Trust me, winning in the playoffs doesn't do it either. Leading the largest comeback in championship game history doesn't do it. Going 2-0 in the last decade against your archrival in the playoffs doesn't do it. Heck, apparently winning a Super Bowl doesn't do it (well, it does for the next year, but lose one time after that and people who are so inclined will forget about it).

People LOVE their narratives, and once they have settled on one, they will work backwards from there to find the numbers and "evidence", real or imagined, to support them. The big games that a given QB "can't win" will be defined as whichever game they just lost.

I hate the Cowboys and wish nothing but ill upon the franchise, but I don't understand why people cling to the notion that Romo is anything short of an elite QB.
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  #6477  
Old January 4th, 2015, 03:04 PM
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Re: Sports: NFL

I forgot he'd won a playoff game. That does not mean I'm wedded to a false narrative. It's been a long time and I'm phone posting and not bothering with research. You guys are talking about my SB champion pick, for heaven's sake.

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  #6478  
Old January 4th, 2015, 07:53 PM
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Re: Sports: NFL

Well, I dont give a damn what anyone says, that was pass interference by the Cowboys and completely effing changed the game. Seriously? Let's wait what? 15-30 seconds and then decide, "nope. Not pass interference." Yeah, right. Yes, I'm bitter.

I cannot stress enough how much I hate the Cowboys.

Oughta be good next week, though. Undefeated on the road against undefeated at home. Hammer meet anvil.

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  #6479  
Old January 4th, 2015, 08:28 PM
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Re: Sports: NFL

Don't forget Dez Byrant running onto the field without a helmet to argue with an official not getting flagged either...

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  #6480  
Old January 4th, 2015, 08:40 PM
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Re: Sports: NFL

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Originally Posted by spidysox View Post
Ravens also have the recipe to beat the Pats, a d line that can pressure without having to blitz. If the o-line of the Pats is not up to the challenge, it could be a long night.
Yea, but New England has the running game and screen game to neutralize that line. Plus I'll take New Englands d over Pittsburghs any day, as well as they advantage of being at home. It wont be easy, but I think that New England has the recipe to put them over the top in this one.
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