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C3G Legacy Archive of all the original discussions and workshops from the first stage of C3G.

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  #505  
Old August 14th, 2018, 12:51 AM
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Re: C3G Playtesting FAQs

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Originally Posted by IAmBatman View Post
You guys should probably put together a proposal to let public testers use those.

Did you not see that in the Map Department?
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  #506  
Old August 14th, 2018, 08:55 AM
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Re: C3G Playtesting FAQs

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Originally Posted by Yodaking View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by IAmBatman View Post
You guys should probably put together a proposal to let public testers use those.

Did you not see that in the Map Department?
I revealed my Order Markers in reverse order.

C3G can be played with official Heroscape, but it's not recommended.


DISCLAIMER: C3G claims no ownership of the characters or artwork used for C3G customs. All rights for the characters belong to their respective publishers/creators. C3G cards are not intended for sale, and C3G does not authorize any party to profit from C3G cards.

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  #507  
Old August 14th, 2018, 12:42 PM
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Re: C3G Playtesting FAQs

lol
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  #508  
Old December 30th, 2018, 08:26 PM
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Re: C3G Playtesting FAQs

I have a quick question about army size in play testing? My play test armies are usually around 800pts or 1000pts mostly because thats what I normally play outside of testing. Is there a set size? Or a rule of thumb that most people go by? If you have a 350 pt figure or a 150 pt figure do you change army size?
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  #509  
Old December 30th, 2018, 08:41 PM
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Re: C3G Playtesting FAQs

Generally speaking without knowing the card details, I do try to insure smaller point cards get a better chance of having an impact on the outcome of the tests by playing them in smaller point games. So a 100 point figure might only see 600 point matches or even smaller when I'm testing them depending on what they do of course. It's hard to tell what impact a 100 point figure had on the outcome of a 1000+ point game when trying to sort out if they should end up a 90, 100, or 110 point unit when released.

For me personally, I think the reverse is true for higher point units. If a 350 point beat stick is being tested, I don't really like seeing them in a 600 point game where they win with half their life still to go. That doesn't tell my if they need a point bump up at all as the game ended before they got a chance to finish going on the warpath. I want to see those heavy hitters in bigger point battles where they are eventually worn down and dropped. Then I can evaluate just how much their full potential can be. It's also important to see even with their full potential realized, if their team can still win the games or the time and OM's invested in that one figure can leave the rest of your team exposed. I recall when Conan went through testing he was racking up some big kill numbers, way over 200 points of damage, but his teams would still end up losing so I felt comfortable moving forward at 200.
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  #510  
Old December 30th, 2018, 09:04 PM
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Re: C3G Playtesting FAQs

@Yodaking thanks for the input. That's kind of my thinking too. I've been struggling with coming up with some armies that I like for my current play test so I started looking at some of the public play tests over the last few months for a few ideas and point total range seemed to vary some.
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  #511  
Old December 30th, 2018, 11:56 PM
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Re: C3G Playtesting FAQs

No problem. Here are a few other thoughts on play testing for C3G for anyone interested in hearing what I think.

One of the things testers should be trying to do when testing is 'breaking' the design to see if any figure combos pose a problem. That means trying to maximize available synergy and utilizing other figures power sets that can boost or amplify the card being tested to new levels.

For example, on the synergy front if I'm testing a new vigilante hero or vigilante sidekick, I'm going to build a team with some redundancy in it. By drafting two or more vigilante's and two or more of their sidekicks, or other vigilante support figures like Alfred and Gordon, means even if one gets KO'ed on a early defense whiff, I have another backup synergy option already in play to continue giving me good testing data. This approach isn't always possible or practical, but I do try to do it when I can.

When it comes to boosting a design, the easy to point to example is the use of attack boosters when testing a figure that can achieve multiple normal ranged attacks. When testing a figure with a single melee attack boosting their attack by 1 isn't usually anything that needs to be tested, but those multiple ranged attack figures can really maximize the attack bonus received. Anyone looking through recent initial play tests will see Star Lord and Capt. America being used quite often, however I do cringe any time I see Star Lord being drafted into a 600 point army and generally knock that army down by 20-30 points when evaluating the results.

That's not to say I don't like Star Lord, I do, he just doesn't achieve much on offense for me so in order to earn back that 250 point investment he needs to be boosting multiple figures for a prolonged period of time. That can't be achieved very often in a smaller point game. Personally I feel best about drafting Star Lord into an army when his 250 points is at most 1 quarter of a 1000 point army build. Occasionally I may run him in an army smaller than that but then I want him boosting more than one multiple attack per OM reveal figures or some really potent defensive powers that scale up in power with when more dice are rolled (ie. Ruthless Counterstrike).

While Capt. America is not much cheaper at 240 points, his personal attack damage output is much more significant. The Shield Throw SA is stronger and more effective than Star Lord's Distracting Fire SA, plus Capt. America can throw down a solid melee attack as well when engaged and revealing that OM1. He also has a better defense and life combo, with the Shield defense power being better than Lucky Defense as well, which means he generally can absorb more of your opponents blows for your team. As such I don't have an issue seeing him in smaller point games since I'm not relying as heavily on his stat boosting to pay for his 240 point investment.

While I used Star Lord as an example above for a figure not being given a chance to live up to its potential in a play tests, the same idea is true of other figures that don't boost stats. I really don't want to see Grundy in a low point game where he most likely won't return to action after dying the first time. His point cost is based on the idea that he will indeed return to torment your opponent during the game at least one more time. When he's being drafted into an army test where that is unlikely to occur, you are handicapping that army in the test. So I try to avoid drafting a figure into either one of my play testing armies that can't realistically earn back their points investment. Casual gaming with friends is a different story though.

That being said, beggars can't be choosers so we are generally happy to receive any play testing data we can. It just requires a little more time and effort for me to sort through and properly evaluate a win/loss sometimes or extrapolate useful data points. Then when it comes to final passage of a design, just looking at strictly the overall win loss ratio isn't as useful a tool when some of those games are not being played on an even playing field.
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  #512  
Old December 31st, 2018, 07:37 AM
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Re: C3G Playtesting FAQs

Thanks, that was very helpful!
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  #513  
Old December 31st, 2018, 08:36 AM
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Re: C3G Playtesting FAQs

When I started testing I would often run a hodgepodge battle for the first match. So if the test figure is 200 points I would run two armies of 3-5 200 pointers that can stand alone.
Of course if the test figure gives synergy as a good chunk of its points, that may not be ideal. That always gave me good idea of the power level I was looking for.

I would try to get to know some of the team builds like Classic X-Men, Teen Titans, TMNT etc. They make great choices to test against once you get a good feel for them.

My personal favorite is Frankenstein, Wendigo & Dragon Man at 990.
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  #514  
Old December 31st, 2018, 04:06 PM
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Re: C3G Playtesting FAQs

Some great advice being given out here.

Usually you want your armies to be the smallest possible size that still lets the test unit really shine. A lot of times that can vary with factional or mechanical needs - for example, Human Robot is one that has to be tested in some pretty big games despite not being a super expensive figure (180-190 points).

There are two reasons for that:
1) bigger matches give him more time to come back with his Restoration Enchantment power
2) he works really well with Nick Fury, who's easier to play in a bigger match; once you have Nick, you want some agent squads, and then at least one more hero. A really lean Nick Fury build still ends up pushing 800 points.

On the other hand, your average Vigilante in the same point range (take Batwoman, for instance, who I tested), can be run pretty comfortably in a 500-600 point build, because of the way Vigilante synergies work. It's really easy to build a tight-knit little Vigilante thing with a mix of Vigilantes, Sidekicks, Oracle and maybe Alfred.
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  #515  
Old December 31st, 2018, 04:45 PM
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Re: C3G Playtesting FAQs

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Originally Posted by Tornado View Post
When I started testing I would often run a hodgepodge battle for the first match. So if the test figure is 200 points I would run two armies of 3-5 200 pointers that can stand alone.
Of course if the test figure gives synergy as a good chunk of its points, that may not be ideal. That always gave me good idea of the power level I was looking for.

Yeah, I like to do that as well. When running tests for a figure with limited synergy offerings, running them in an army with similar point cost allies gives me an opportunity to directly compare how each unit impacted the game. Then it's easy to determine if I feel they are all in the same ball park or the unit being tested is significantly better or worse than already released units at that price point/range when facing the same conditions (map used/opposing army).
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  #516  
Old October 31st, 2019, 09:03 PM
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Re: C3G Playtesting FAQs

If i apply to playtest a certain unit, when I test it, will both players of the game have to fill out a feed back report or just the person who used the certain unit?
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