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  #121  
Old August 8th, 2016, 07:55 PM
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Re: The Book of Leonardo - Public Playtesting

OK, dumb idea.

Let's try this then (hopefully, it all still fits on the card!):

Quote:
TURTLE POWER
After revealing an Order Marker on this card and taking a turn with Leonardo, you may choose up to three other Ninja Turtles you control. One at a time, remove an unrevealed Order Marker from each of the chosen Ninja Turtles' Army Cards to add 1 to its attack dice and take an immediate turn with the chosen figure.

NINJA FOCUS 1
When you roll the 20-sided die for a Ninja you control, you may add or subtract 1. All Ninja figures you control within 4 clear sight spaces of Leonardo add 1 to their defense dice.
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  #122  
Old August 8th, 2016, 08:14 PM
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Re: The Book of Leonardo - Public Playtesting

Quote:
Originally Posted by quozl View Post
OK, dumb idea.

Let's try this then (hopefully, it all still fits on the card!):

Quote:
TURTLE POWER
After revealing an Order Marker on this card and taking a turn with Leonardo, you may choose up to three other Ninja Turtles you control. One at a time, remove an unrevealed Order Marker from each of the chosen Ninja Turtles' Army Cards to add 1 to its attack dice and take an immediate turn with the chosen figure.

NINJA FOCUS 1
When you roll the 20-sided die for a Ninja you control, you may add or subtract 1. All Ninja figures you control within 4 clear sight spaces of Leonardo add 1 to their defense dice.
I like that change to Turtle Power, but I'm not really a fan of the Ninja Focus change. Why don't we just give each of them an extra base defense?

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  #123  
Old August 8th, 2016, 09:16 PM
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Re: The Book of Leonardo - Public Playtesting

Two reasons:

Doing it this way forces them to move as a group in order to get the bonus defense.

Leonardo also leads the Foot Ninja and this helps them too.
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  #124  
Old August 8th, 2016, 09:30 PM
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Re: The Book of Leonardo - Public Playtesting

It also makes him better with the Hand Ninja (and Kirigi, but whatevs). I worry that his best build might end up being him+one other Turtle+a bunch of Hand Ninja. If you're okay with Hand Ninja builds being near his best though, I can get on board.

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  #125  
Old August 8th, 2016, 09:58 PM
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Re: The Book of Leonardo - Public Playtesting

Wasn't there talk about splinter having Ninja Focus 2. Wouldn't that defense bonus stack then?

If Leo is the issue then ok but if it's all the turtles not feeling adequate why not just up there base defense by one?

Ninja'd sorry.

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  #126  
Old August 8th, 2016, 10:00 PM
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Re: The Book of Leonardo - Public Playtesting

Splinter will have a different focus.

Leo does only give the attack bonus to Nina Turtles so I think he'll work well with just the other turtles too. And I'm not opposed to them working with other ninja. In fact, it follows the comics.

Japes, will all this fit on a card OK?
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  #127  
Old August 9th, 2016, 09:53 AM
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Re: The Book of Leonardo - Public Playtesting

Quote:
Originally Posted by quozl View Post
Splinter will have a different focus.

Leo does only give the attack bonus to Nina Turtles so I think he'll work well with just the other turtles too. And I'm not opposed to them working with other ninja. In fact, it follows the comics.

Japes, will all this fit on a card OK?
I'll have to check. I know A3n wanted to do all the turtles so he could make his cards using the awesome proxies he created but I should get a chance in the next couple of days to do a text check for you.

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  #128  
Old August 9th, 2016, 11:25 AM
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Re: The Book of Leonardo - Public Playtesting

Quote:
Originally Posted by quozl View Post
Doing it this way forces them to move as a group in order to get the bonus defense.
I haven't played them yet, but I thought one of the issues people were having was that it was hard to keep them together; seems weird to highlight that issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by quozl View Post
Leonardo also leads the Foot Ninja and this helps them too.
Well, as long as you give the Foot Ninja a D20 power they would have been already boosted by Leo; the additional boost seems excessive.

Those aside, my biggest issue with the defense aura is that the card already has a lot going on. He has four powers already, adding in the defense aura (by forcing two separate powers together) essentially gets him up to a five power card. It just feels like a very inelegant fix to me, making Leo's card oddly convoluted in an attempt to make the faction cohesive.

Giving them each an extra defense would be much cleaner and also give them a better chance even if Leo goes down first. As-is it seems like your game will be almost entirely contingent on whether or not Leo sticks around.

My .

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  #129  
Old August 9th, 2016, 11:33 AM
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Re: The Book of Leonardo - Public Playtesting

That's a good point, V. Another reason I had for doing it this way was to avoid a whole bunch more testing. However, since we were lowering all of the 3 other turtles by 10 points each, maybe we could keep them at their normal points with a +1 defense boost?

Then we just add the attack boost to Turtle Power and give Leo a +1 attack and defense and try them all again at 700.

To sum up, we leave the points as-is for the other 3 turtles and we give them all +1 Defense. Then we change Leo to:

Quote:
NAME = LEONARDO
SPECIES = TURTLE
UNIQUENESS = UNIQUE HERO
CLASS = NINJA
PERSONALITY = DISCIPLINED

SIZE/HEIGHT = MEDIUM 5

LIFE = 5

MOVE = 5
RANGE = 1
ATTACK = 5
DEFENSE = 6

POINTS = 210

TURTLE POWER
After revealing an Order Marker on this card and taking a turn with Leonardo, you may choose up to three other Ninja Turtles you control. One at a time, remove an unrevealed Order Marker from each of the chosen Ninja Turtles' Army Cards to add 1 to its attack dice and take an immediate turn with the chosen figure.

NINJA FOCUS 1
When you roll the 20-sided die for a Ninja you control, you may add or subtract 1.

DOUBLE ATTACK
When Leonardo attacks, Leonardo may attack one additional time.

STEALTH LEAP 12
Instead of his normal move, Leonardo may Stealth Leap. Stealth Leap has a move of 3. When counting spaces for Leonardo's Stealth Leap movement, ignore elevations. Leonardo may leap over water without stopping, leap over figures without becoming engaged, and leap over obstacles such as ruins. Leonardo may not leap more than 12 levels up or down in a single leap. When moving with Stealth Leap, Leonardo will not take any leaving engagement attacks.
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  #130  
Old August 9th, 2016, 11:52 AM
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Re: The Book of Leonardo - Public Playtesting

That definitely works for me.

One option we could do if we didn't want to give Leo 5 base attack (which is pretty impressive with double attack) would be to move things around in Turtle Power to allow Leo to be boosted by it too. Something like:

TURTLE POWER
After revealing an Order Marker on this card and before taking a turn with Leonardo, you may choose up to three other Ninja Turtles you control. One at a time, remove an unrevealed Order Marker from each of the chosen Ninja Turtles' Army Cards to take an immediate turn with the chosen figure. If you remove at least 1 Order Marker this way, all Ninja Turtles you control roll 1 additional attack die until the end of your turn.

Just a thought; either way I'm happy with the above version.

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  #131  
Old August 9th, 2016, 12:00 PM
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Re: The Book of Leonardo - Public Playtesting

I thought about that but I don't think he'll be worth 210 with that change. I think the double attack of 5 should definitely earn those points.
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  #132  
Old August 24th, 2016, 02:08 PM
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Re: The Book of Leonardo - Public Playtesting

C3G STANDARD PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE PLAYTEST UNIT: Leonardo (this version)

Army Test 1
Map: Sacred Shrine (no glyphs or special rules)
Units: Leonardo, Donatello, Michelangelo, Raphael (700 points) VS Luke Cage, Iron Fist, Spider-Man (C3G) (700 points)
Spoiler Alert!

___________________________________________________________

Army Test 2
Map: Sacred Shrine (no glyphs or special rules)
Units: Leonardo, Donatello, Michelangelo, Raphael (700 points) VS Luke Cage, Iron Fist, Spider-Man (C3G) (700 points)
Spoiler Alert!


___________________________________________________________

Army Test 3
Map: Sacred Shrine (no glyphs or special rules)
Units: Leonardo, Donatello, Michelangelo, Raphael, Martian Manhunter (I) (1,000 points) VS Catman, Scandal Savage, Deadshot, Bane, Knockout (1,000 points)
Spoiler Alert!

___________________________________________________________

Army Test 4
Map: Sacred Shrine (no glyphs or special rules)
Units: Leonardo, Michelangelo, Donatello, Robot, Invisible Woman (955 points) VS YL Arkillo, YL Sinestro, Sinestro Corps Soldiers x3 (970 points)
Spoiler Alert!

___________________________________________________________

THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT'S COST, BALANCE, & DRAFTABILITY: This is a tough faction to get a good read on. At times they seem well balanced, if even a little strong, but then they end up losing the game. The dice weren’t very fair to the turtles through all four of these games, and the second game in particular should have been an easy win for them (Iron Fist surviving for rounds on his own after being brought up to 4 wounds is ridiculous).

Their weakness is that their entire game hinges on Leo. If he can survive and keep using Turtle Power, you’ll do well; but as soon as he goes down your game is pretty much over. Now, this does make them interesting to play, but it also means they often don’t do well. Future synergy (especially what I’ve seen brainstormed for Casey Jones) might help alleviate this too.

I also think Raph really drags the team down, and honestly I don’t think he’s worth drafting with the other three. I found activating him with Turtle Power was mostly a waste since he only gives you a single attack; instead, just save a numbered OM and use it later in the round on either Mikey or Don. Really, the only reason to draft Raph is in the hope that Self Importance will trigger (and at the right time), but that’s such a huge gamble it’s not really worth it. I’d consider using Ronan’s suggestion of giving him double attack when activated normally, and triple attack when activated by Self Importance.

Overall, I don’t think the turtles are all that far off from being balanced. If Raph was made more useful, and maybe some of the turtles had their cost lowered a little, I think they’d work. They still wouldn’t be a strong faction, but they’d certainly be playable, and future synergy could help bring them up even a little more.


GENERAL THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT: The turtles are a lot of fun, and tough (in a good way) to play just right. Pulling off a successful Turtle Power is awesome. Having Donny use the Gauntlet to toss an enemy into place so that Mikey can go crazy on them is really cool. Their opponents really have to think carefully when placing OMs as a good Turtle Power could take down their key figure. On the fun side of things, the turtles definitely get a from me.

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