Cookie Cutter Army Discussion and Tiers (+D1 & GC '10)

[Aldin]

Jexik,

Did you notice that almost every unit in the game with a "typical" ranged attack (no Sudema, no WoB, etc) made either tier one or two? Excluded were the E-Wiz crew and the Deathwalkers.

~Aldin, thinking that three member melee squads suffer under the current metagame

[fomox]

I think this was a useful exercise. Even if it were just gleaning from the other two threads you mentioned, it's nice to get that info all in one post.

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Comments:

I think you're right that heavies make the blades obsolete at high point totals, 24 hexes. The Raelin+Heavy army you mentioned got both first and second at the Skirmish. (The second place orc army only lost to the first place orc army. And he got punked in that one....)


For anyone considering microcorp builds: I think it's a lot of fun, but you will have a tough time against rats. I think having Q10 (or Kaemon) is really essential in those builds. If you don't have a rat counter, they pin your micro down without height where they are completely impotent.
As much as I like microcorp armies, tier 2 sounds about right.

[Rÿchean]

Originally Posted by Jexik

Thanks, Dignan. I should have showed him more respect and looked it up. It's fixed now. I remember being very impressed by his performance with that army. I think he beat Rÿchean's 5x Stingers/2x Rats/Kaemon, right?

Actually, you should show me more repsect and not post that I lost to someone I haven't even played in a tournament setting. I did lose to someone with magical hovering robots, though.

[Junge Roman]

Alright, fine. Everybody wants to defend DW7K today? I've read the strat. guide. I've used him. I was making a joke. I thought teir 11 was a joke. Really, people. Just for that, I'm going to take the poor man's Braxas (Sudema) to a tournament and teach you all to respect her. Really, I will, one day...

By the way. Deadeye Dan is the ultimate DW7K counter, so if he ascends the Teir list due to Metagame considerations, then Deadeye can follow (albeit still a couple tiers down).

[clancampbell]

Originally Posted by Aldin

Jexik,

Did you notice that almost every unit in the game with a "typical" ranged attack (no Sudema, no WoB, etc) made either tier one or two? Excluded were the E-Wiz crew and the Deathwalkers.

~Aldin, thinking that three member melee squads suffer under the current metagame

Not so sure on that Aldin. True, the WOA don't see much, if any, tourny play. However, alot of 3 member melee squads have found a niche. The venocs, for their frenzy. The zombies, and the Drones, for their hoard moves. I often see the samurai units and the ninjas as well. Maybe their not top tier units, but they have their place in the game.

[Jexik]

Originally Posted by Aldin

Jexik,

Did you notice that almost every unit in the game with a "typical" ranged attack (no Sudema, no WoB, etc) made either tier one or two? Excluded were the E-Wiz crew and the Deathwalkers.

~Aldin, thinking that three member melee squads suffer under the current metagame

It makes sense. The basic mechanics of the game (height advantage and engagement rules) intrinsically favor ranged units, especially those that can attack multiple targets and move freely.

Also if you look, Tier 1 is real close (nearly identical) to spider's A/A+ range, only with more examples. I didn't do it entirely on purpose, but that's essentially how it works out. Maybe the reason I have trouble dividing up Tier 2 is the same reason there are so many B ranked units.

I was thinking of doing a Ronin custom, (common melee samurai who can't be activated by Kato) and they were going to be 4 figures/squad. Maybe squad size the real problem with Deathstalkers? (although 8 hexes/squad is crazy)..

Originally Posted by Rÿchean

Actually, you should show me more repsect and not post that I lost to someone I haven't even played in a tournament setting. I did lose to someone with magical hovering robots, though.

For some reason I thought you did. I remember being surprised that you didn't do better, even if you didn't lose to the undead. I guess you need your KMArutch.

I guess one message I'm trying to get across is that there are a number of different crutches out there. KMA/rats are your style. Raelin and ranged commons is spider's. I like Nilfheim.

Originally Posted by Junge Roman

Alright, fine. Everybody wants to defend DW7K today? I've read the strat. guide. I've used him. I was making a joke. I thought teir 11 was a joke. Really, people. Just for that, I'm going to take the poor man's Braxas (Sudema) to a tournament and teach you all to respect her. Really, I will, one day...

By the way. Deadeye Dan is the ultimate DW7K counter, so if he ascends the Teir list due to Metagame considerations, then Deadeye can follow (albeit still a couple tiers down).

Yes, Tier 11 was a joke. My DW7K + 4th Mass combo was also a joke. But joke armies can win now and then (except that Tier 11 one).

I dislike Deadeye Dan as much as I like Nilfheim. That's no joke.

[Aldin]

Originally Posted by clancampbell

Not so sure on that Aldin. True, the WOA don't see much, if any, tourny play. However, alot of 3 member melee squads have found a niche. The venocs, for their frenzy. The zombies, and the Drones, for their hoard moves. I often see the samurai units and the ninjas as well. Maybe their not top tier units, but they have their place in the game.

All I can really say to that is that the vast majority of the time, when I see WoA, Venocs, Samurai or Zombies on the other side of the map, I feel more at ease. Drones... I'd worry about Drones. But in a way it's hard to call them a three member squad since they average 4.8 figs per OM. 8xDrones in a 400 point game would be worth worrying about.

~Aldin, who didn't mention the Ninjas mostly because he got played by Spidey recently

[killercactus]

I honestly don't think DW7K + 4th Mass is that much of a joke. DW7K can take himself off of the board whenever he wants, even if the opponent chooses to ignore him, and grant the Mass the Valiant bonus. He's also pretty good at putting at least 2 wounds on Q9 - something the Mass struggle with.

Lastly, he's an awesome glyph holder. I would love to stick him on the Common Attack glyph and dare my opponent to kill him.

[Jexik]

Yeah, it's just hard for me to pick DW7K over Alastair or one of the Drakes to fill those last points. Someone should totally try it. I probably would if I weren't so sick of playing and talking about the 4th. I brought them to my first tournament, and that was it.

And I do like the cheeky move of "my 4th fill all of the hexes, so I don't even need to place him" if you're not playing Point Differential and they've got 3x rats.

[spider_poison]

DW7K's dominance and ease of play with 4th Mass is another reason I value Deadeye Dan so highly. Last time I played Jexik, he thought he was being so smart drafting DW7K with his valiant Mass, so I took DED and shot the soulborg on his first turn. Bam, nothing to worry about. I was a little disappointed as DED only took out about 8 or so 4th Mass before he died, but he certainly proved his worth in that game.

And nice list too. I'm not sure if knights are first tier, and if they are, I think Roman builds should be up there too. Their main problem is that nobody plays them in tourneys any longer. Perhaps I can convince Jormi to bust them out again. A lot of people were freaking out about Zelrig destroying them, and while it certainly is a tough matchup, you don't really see Zelrig in tourneys that much anyway. Either way, great list, and it was lots of fun to read

[Junge Roman]

It's good to know I'm not the only one giving DED some respect. Much as you describe, he took out my DW7k when I thought I was being clever drafting him. (way back when those guys were first released)

edit: +rep, spider poison, because I believe you are solid and respected by all.

[spider_poison]

Originally Posted by Junge Roman

It's good to know I'm not the only one giving DED some respect. Much as you describe, he took out my DW7k when I thought I was being clever drafting him. (way back when those guys were first released)

edit: +rep, spider poison, because I believe you are solid and respected by all.

Well, you're well known and liked, but perhaps that will change some day

+rep