Age of Annihilation - Backer Trend and Discussion

[Grungebob]

I personally side with CVN. Heroscape is a multiverse. Any hero can be called to the fight as long as it has an effective place on the battlefield. You can have Conan fighting along side an alien creature with a squad of WW2 airborne and an elf wizard, and a mutant giant dog. You got blue orcs on dinosaurs fighting ninjas and samurai. It’s all good as long as it all fights and earns it’s place.

[badgermaniac]

I think there is way too much reaching for explanations about marketing concerns, changes in themes, etc. I will repeat what I said from the start. The game is just too hard to make at a reasonable price point given the economics of today. I appreciate Hasbro giving the community the opportunity to see if they would be willing to "overpay" for one more bite of the apple, but if they couldn't get me to bite (a longtime fan who loves the game and has pretty much everything from the original run) because I just didn't want to pay $250, it was going to be an uphill battle. It didn't matter how many videos they put out, what the colors of the models were, whether they made extra Facebook posts, or whether the figures were squirrels, robots, or bugs.

Like I said....I love the game, but I don't love the game at $250.

[Garenex]

Originally Posted by Master Roshi

People were actually complaining about the zombies not fitting the heroscape arsthetic back in the day? I wouldn't have expected that

Here's two old threads from back in the day. It does appear to have been a very small minority.

https://www.heroscapers.com/communit...ead.php?t=4309

https://www.heroscapers.com/communit...ead.php?t=4678

[Hogg]

Originally Posted by Grungebob

I personally side with CVN. Heroscape is a multiverse. Any hero can be called to the fight as long as it has an effective place on the battlefield. You can have Conan fighting along side an alien creature with a squad of WW2 airborne and an elf wizard, and a mutant giant dog. You got blue orcs on dinosaurs fighting ninjas and samurai. It’s all good as long as it all fights and earns it’s place.

The problem wasn't the inclusion of new stuff, it was the inclusion of so much new stuff and the complete omission of the separate fantasy, historic, and sci-fi elements. If there had been some Historic pirates in the Dawn Raiders, and a few classic Elves in the Lifeborne Order, More Marro, etc, there wouldn't have been as many complaints.

[Grungebob]

Originally Posted by Hogg

The problem wasn't the inclusion of new stuff, it was the inclusion of so much new stuff and the complete omission of the separate fantasy, historic, and sci-fi elements. If there had been some Historic pirates in the Dawn Raiders, and a few classic Elves in the Lifeborne Order, More Marro, etc, there wouldn't have been as many complaints.

Oh I totally get that. My point was that the offering all fit just fine within the Heroscape universe. Bundling the content in the way they did was not optimal for maintaining the Heroscape aesthetic, but all of it is super interesting and totally ‘Scape.

[GUILD_WARRIOR]

Originally Posted by badgermaniac

I think there is way too much reaching for explanations about marketing concerns, changes in themes, etc. I will repeat what I said from the start. The game is just too hard to make at a reasonable price point given the economics of today. I appreciate Hasbro giving the community the opportunity to see if they would be willing to "overpay" for one more bite of the apple, but if they couldn't get me to bite (a longtime fan who loves the game and has pretty much everything from the original run) because I just didn't want to pay $250, it was going to be an uphill battle. It didn't matter how many videos they put out, what the colors of the models were, whether they made extra Facebook posts, or whether the figures were squirrels, robots, or bugs.

Like I said....I love the game, but I don't love the game at $250.

I myself tried to help by backing a couple sets, but I see your point. It would have been nice to purchase some for prizes at bigger tournaments and stuff like that but a $250 a pop its a little steep when the economy is still spiraling downhill. The all or nothing part was a little hard to take. The beauty of Heroscape was if you didn't like a set or specific units, you didn't buy them.

[rudyvalentine]

They missed the accessibility factor big time. Maybe it doesn’t reach $2 million with smaller offerings, but I think it gets closer than the one size fits all approach.

[badgermaniac]

For the record, I do think there were mistake made. Making the only offering a very pricey starter set prices outs the new crowd and doesn't make sense for the nostalgic crowd, who does not need dice, tiles, etc.

I think asking whether smaller expansions, "non-tile" terrain packs, etc. would have made financial sense for Hasbro is a legit question, but I do think there would have been massive interest from the folks on site like this one.

The sticker shock of $250 was just too much, regardless of value.

['Scaper94]

The debate about the shift in tone with the AoA units is neither a point to be ignored nor invalid. I've seen it mentioned at least a few times in the past few months that ClassicScape has a "cartoonish" aesthetic (maybe "PG storybook" is a better description - I'm not sure). The visual design of the original units all have shared qualities that bring together the whole tapestry of ClassicScape. Even the sculpts with the scariest or darkest designs still fall within a defined aesthetic palette.

Now, with AoA units, those introduce a new aesthetic tone, which I think of as "graphic novel" (or "PG-13 storybook" if you prefer). AoA is grittier. The sculpts have more detail. (This strays a bit from the visual, but it ties into the overall aesthetic topic: "Hellforge" instead of "Deathforge" is a design choice that affects the tone of AoA.) We can even look at the box art as an example: highly detailed, heavy use of dark colors contrasted sharply with light colors. As a whole, these decisions move AoA away from the aesthetic palette defined by ClassicScape.

Is this good or bad? I'm not sure - I don't think it's a simple answer. If you're in the camp that HS is all-inclusive, then the tone shift might not bother you. If you believe that HS needs to have boundaries based on existing practices, then the tone shift may be a thorn in your side. At the end of the day, I believe the answer boils down to the intent of the designers. Do the designers intend to maintain the tone palette of ClassicScape? Do the designers intend to introduce new aesthetic tone(s) with AoA? And (cynically yet respectfully) are the designers designing AoA with an aesthetic intent in mind throughout the entire design process?

[nyys]

@'Scaper94 , this is definitely the first time I've ever heard of a fanbase preferring less detailed (less than desirable) sculpts. You can count me in that camp as well, I just find it interesting. Maybe even more than the sticker shock for some, I think that change is the most jarring (along with no pre-paints, but that's a whole other convo). Of course if original Scape had crazy nice sculpts we wouldn't be having this part of the convo.

If this campaign, IMO, went the 100% nostalgia route, then I don't think the $250 price tag would have been as big an issue, it's just something else to pile on about (save those who truly cannot afford to drop that much at once).

[chas]

I saw a recent article where Chris said that in the long run they would do a cheaper buy in set and then various expansion sets. Too bad they can't just go to that model later on, regardless of how the initial offering funds. That would be good for everybody.

I wonder if they will reveal what they are going to do with Scape, if anything, soon after the final deadline on Tuesday, if we don't fund. But even if there will be any further activity with our game, it may take Avalon Hill and Hasbro a while to decide about that. Best of luck to them on finding an active solution, rather than just giving up on AOA.

[nyys]

@chas yup, I have no doubt there will be some very vocal folks demanding they say something, anything, after the campaign should it not fund. I can't imagine any announcement, statement, etc (if there's one at all) will come quick enough to prevent the real vitriol from coming out, unfortunately.