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Competitive Armies Discussion Discuss, critique, and build ideas for tournament-caliber armies.


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  #49  
Old August 11th, 2019, 07:26 PM
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Re: Reverse the Whip Army Archetypes

Well I think your X17 Theracus to Wannok OM1 wasn't great. As Wannok was useless against your army, all it was doing was charging up Krug. I guess the benefit was that I wasn't holding Wannok? That was your biggest mistake since it basically lost you a turn.

You would have had to commit two order markers to the X17 Theracus to cyberclaw vipers and once the initial one or two Vipers you catch with that die then the rest of them just never engage X17. That idea certainly has potential but it's really really hard to execute properly. I never pulled off a crowd cyberclaw in my games with the army, the opportunity just never came up.
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  #50  
Old August 11th, 2019, 09:03 PM
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Re: Reverse the Whip Army Archetypes

I'm just thinking that you'd have to waste movement getting around X17, which might be a slight advantage.

It didn't occur to me that Wannok was a bad play. I guess the way I see it is that I'd have to deal with Krug eventually, so having him charged up is inevitable.

I need to learn to use auras properly. Using Nerak to up the Deathchasers to 3 defense could probably have turned the game in my favor. I'm also at a disadvantage in general when I'm forced to use Raelin.

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  #51  
Old August 12th, 2019, 12:53 PM
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Re: Reverse the Whip Army Archetypes

Honestly I thought that was an almost optimally bad matchup for the 'chasers. 4 attack is wasted against Vipers, you're outnumbered, and if it comes down to the heroes Krug and Mittens are going to win.

But then again I would have picked myself to win in quarters and vegie to win in finals, so what do I know.
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  #52  
Old August 12th, 2019, 01:59 PM
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Re: Reverse the Whip Army Archetypes

Curious how the Prep armies would be classified in this system, but I get if you want to ignore the online if the meta is just too different:

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Last edited by kevindola; August 16th, 2019 at 12:08 AM.
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  #53  
Old August 15th, 2019, 11:53 PM
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Re: Reverse the Whip Army Archetypes

Yeah the online meta is just too different to compare to be honest. This is maybe more aptly titled "Gencon Reverse the Whip Army Archetypes" as the techniques are different. The playoffs (and regular season) of the online prep tournaments are substantially shorter so the variance is higher. There is more time to prep for online games which weakens trick builds which are still quite strong at Gencon.

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  #54  
Old August 23rd, 2019, 03:01 PM
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Re: Reverse the Whip Army Archetypes

Yeah, there is more time to prepare for sure. Any chance of this event moving to something like a Bring 2?(Main event).

Perhaps all of you that go to Gencon have a good idea as to who brings what, in order to guess the power level of armies.

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  #55  
Old August 23rd, 2019, 03:34 PM
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Re: Reverse the Whip Army Archetypes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinseth View Post
Any chance of this event moving to something like a Bring 2?(Main event).
No.

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  #56  
Old August 23rd, 2019, 03:47 PM
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Re: Reverse the Whip Army Archetypes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinseth View Post
Yeah, there is more time to prepare for sure. Any chance of this event moving to something like a Bring 2?(Main event).

Perhaps all of you that go to Gencon have a good idea as to who brings what, in order to guess the power level of armies.
"Guessing the power level" is just not true when building for the Main Event. It's easy enough to look at the level of armies that have made cut (ignoring outliers) and the overall trend of power levels throughout the past few years to figure out the power level you should bring. Even looking at the armies that missed cut, I feel like most could have gone 4-2 (ignoring a few outliers).

There's really no reason to change it, as the best players will very consistently make cut (now that it's a 6 round day 1). Half the Top 16 is pretty much locked in before the first round begins (as in, there's a pool of about 10 players that I expect to make it, and one or two might miss each year, like ISB3 this year). The only real luck at this point is in WHO you face, not really what you face (and while you can still hit a bad matchup once in a while, your army should be built in a way that you don't auto lose to anything).
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  #57  
Old August 23rd, 2019, 06:10 PM
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I honestly feel like who makes it would stay pretty consistent across formats where you'll have to potentially beat what you bring. (I think the biggest detriment something like take 2 has from a logistics standpoint is you're much more likely to have someone analysis paralysis as opposed to alternating RtW where all of that would happen in game.)

Alternating RtW can still create a matchup roulette (there are definitely a couple rounds I'm thinking of where I know exactly which side of the table I wanted to be on), but I do think recent years have worked on mitigating that to a noticeable degree.

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  #58  
Old August 23rd, 2019, 06:41 PM
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Re: Reverse the Whip Army Archetypes

This was one of the the most predictable year to date in terms of the anticipated people making day 2. There were some new faces like @JohnnyFrisbee but it was a lot of the consistent performers... well, performing consistently.

I prefer Bring 2 but honestly it's found a nice home as a side event and wouldn't even be my first pick for a main event format if I could choose. (That would be reverse draft, FWIW, not that it matters because Ken will never admit that I come up with awesome formats just like he won't admit that he can't beat me even when his Hawthorne rages 8 times.)

Last edited by dok; August 23rd, 2019 at 06:42 PM. Reason: srsly tho, Reverse Draft and Chaos of Battle side events next year. Chaos of battle is LIT
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  #59  
Old August 24th, 2019, 08:22 AM
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Re: Reverse the Whip Army Archetypes

Quote:
Originally Posted by dok View Post
This was one of the the most predictable year to date in terms of the anticipated people making day 2. There were some new faces like @JohnnyFrisbee but it was a lot of the consistent performers... well, performing consistently.

I prefer Bring 2 but honestly it's found a nice home as a side event and wouldn't even be my first pick for a main event format if I could choose. (That would be reverse draft, FWIW, not that it matters because Ken will never admit that I come up with awesome formats just like he won't admit that he can't beat me even when his Hawthorne rages 8 times.)
Two things:

1. So many games already go to time in main event. Reverse draft or any other format which requires players to make additional decisions even before starting the game will only cause more games to go time; and more importantly

2. Who brings Rats x3, Krav, and Hydra to the Wise Men (Old Man) tournament? It's the old man tourney, not the Noob tourney.
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  #60  
Old August 24th, 2019, 12:19 PM
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Re: Reverse the Whip Army Archetypes

I mean dok formats have a very particular style. Make it so as much as possible when you start rolling dice that the matchup is close to even. Unless it is a draft because beating someone in a draft before dice are rolled still shows you are the best. I don't think there's anything that wrong with that style but that's what it is.

My issue with Bring 2 has been that you can end up playing the same matchup over and over since the goal is to match your armies to be even against each other. Whereas the Main Event format as it is it tends to bring unique games. Maybe Reverse Draft can do that but Reverse Draft often ends up with awkward games as partial armies really are strange to play with even if it is a balancing exercise. I'm not going to pretend like Alternating RtW doesn't have a matchup roulette factor but I think that the games that format leads to are the most fun.

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