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C3G Legacy Library This is the archive for all the designs released in the original era of C3G. Feel free to post any figure specific questions in their individual books.

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  #13  
Old February 13th, 2014, 05:01 PM
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Re: The Book of Lurker - Design

Depends on the map. They would hate it on a map where there's height close enough to their start zone that highly mobile ranged figures from the other side could get to in order to start hitting them while they were working their way through. But it's not like these guys are going to be tough to carve a path through.

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DISCLAIMER: C3G claims no ownership of the characters or artwork used for C3G customs. All rights for the characters belong to their respective publishers/creators. C3G cards are not intended for sale, and C3G does not authorize any party to profit from C3G cards.

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  #14  
Old March 2nd, 2014, 03:56 PM
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Re: The Book of Lurker - Design

C3G INITIAL PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE TEST UNIT (LURKER)

- THEME TEST/ Check to see if there are any powers or stats on the test unit card that does not accurately reflect the theme or likeness of what the character would and could do. Also consider destructible objects, and whether or not this characters powers should affect them.
PASS

- MIRROR TEST/ Check to see if the unit were played against itself, if there would be any loops that would upset the balance of the Game.
PASS

- BONDING TEST/ Compare the unit card with all possible currently existing Bonding abilities to make sure there are no continual Bonding possibilities that do not stop appropriately or do not stop at all. This is to prevent loops in Bonding.
PASS

- SYNERGIES TEST/ Compare the unit card with all possible currently existing synergies to make sure there are no factors that could break the game by making any unit to powerful or too weak.
PASS

- POWER CHECK/ Consider the test unit and all existing units and all glyphs to compare to and check for any powers that could be over amplified and break the game. Each power must define when it takes place, who or what it affects, and What are the stipulations on the power if there are any.
PASS

- FUN TEST/ Consider whether or not the design was fun to play.
PASS

- FUN COMPETITIVE TEST/ Consider whether or not the design was fun to play against.
PASS

- DRAFTING TEST/ Consider whether or not this design is worth drafting.
PASS

- USAGE TEST/ Consider whether or not all of the powers on this card were used or at least usable.
PASS

- STRATEGY TEST/ Consider whether or not the design offers any real strategy or interesting tactics to the overall game.
PASS


Heavy Hitter or Mid-Level Hero Test
- Does it pass, Yes or No?
Yes.
- What should be the unit's point value? 25 feels fine.
- Give a brief overview. They're just a tad weak at 25 (though not as bad in numbers), but I expect that cost to feel fine (and possibly a tad low) once the Walkers and Roamers get mixed in.
Spoiler Alert!
Spoiler Alert!

_____________________________________________________________

Squad Test
- Does it pass, Yes or No?
Yes.
- What should be the unit's point value? 50.
- Give a brief overview. Dice determined this more than anything. It felt like a fairly even match, though.
Map: Custom
Units: Lurker x2 vs. Civilians x1 (45)
Spoiler Alert!

_____________________________________________________________

Squad Test
- Does it pass, Yes or No?
Yes.
- What should be the unit's point value? 25 works.
- Give a brief overview. This was fairly close, but the Hawkmen are built to kill Undead, even without Unique Hero help.
Map: Custom
Units: Lurker x4 vs. Hawkmen of Thanagar x1 (100)
Spoiler Alert!

_____________________________________________________________

Army Test
- Does it pass, Yes or No?
Yes.
- What should be the unit's point value? 25 works great.
- Give a brief overview. Zombies felt pretty formidable here, but the X-Men, with Gambit and Cyclops, were perfectly set up to bomb their packed start zones.
Map: Custom
Units: Lurker x4 (100), Walker x16 (800), Roamer x5, (100) (1,000) vs. Professor X, Gambit, Cyclops, Rogue, Shadowcat (1,000)
Spoiler Alert!

_____________________________________________________________

Army Test
- Does it pass, Yes or No?
Yes.
- What should be the unit's point value? 25-30?
- Give a brief overview. Swarming, Lying in Wait, Walking Dead, and good Born on a Monday rolls really helped give the zombies an advantage here.
Map: Custom
Units: Lurker x4 (100), Walker x6 (300), Roamer x9 (180), Zombie (120), Solomon Grundy (290) (990) vs. Mister Fantastic, Human Torch, Invisible Woman, Thing (1,000)
Spoiler Alert!

_____________________________________________________________

Army Test
- Does it pass, Yes or No?
Yes.
- What should be the unit's point value? 25 points.
- Give a brief overview. Very fun match! Zombies had a chance until Enchantress Soul Swapped Grundy and then had him beat up Captain America.
Map: Custom
Units: Lurker x4 (100), Walker x11 (550), Roamer x8 (160), Solomon Grundy (290) (1,100) vs. Enchantress (380), Captain America (240), Black Canary (190), Green Arrow (150), Red Arrow (150) (1,110)
Spoiler Alert!

C3G can be played with official Heroscape, but it's not recommended.


DISCLAIMER: C3G claims no ownership of the characters or artwork used for C3G customs. All rights for the characters belong to their respective publishers/creators. C3G cards are not intended for sale, and C3G does not authorize any party to profit from C3G cards.

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  #15  
Old March 2nd, 2014, 04:11 PM
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Re: The Book of Lurker - Design

25 looks pretty good to me... though 30 might end up being better for army building (since the other two are 50 and 20 respectively). Pre-Yea either way.

I'm assuming you'll be sending all three units out to playtesters? I'm hoping we can get some "Lurker exclusive" tests in there, too.
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  #16  
Old March 2nd, 2014, 05:04 PM
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Re: The Book of Lurker - Design

Hmm, I'm not sure what the purpose would be of Lurker exclusive tests. That'd be like asking someone to test Prof X only with non-Mutants. He could still have value as an OM hub and with Psychic Defense X, but he's just not the same unit.

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DISCLAIMER: C3G claims no ownership of the characters or artwork used for C3G customs. All rights for the characters belong to their respective publishers/creators. C3G cards are not intended for sale, and C3G does not authorize any party to profit from C3G cards.

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  #17  
Old March 2nd, 2014, 05:17 PM
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Re: The Book of Lurker - Design

But, with the Lurkers being last in line, they're the units most likely to be weighed too heavily in the group build. Walker and Roamer were with some consideration of the big picture in the end, but I'm hoping we can avoid Lurker being the furthest out.

I suppose your heavy hitter tests sort of cover the bases there but, I dunno, I feel bad leaving a unit in the lurch like that.
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  #18  
Old March 2nd, 2014, 05:59 PM
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Re: The Book of Lurker - Design

But without the Lurkers, they aren't a group at all. They're just a collection of individuals. Zombie Apocalypse is the money power, because it's the one that lets them work as a faction. It makes sense that the Lurkers would bear the brunt of that cost.

C3G can be played with official Heroscape, but it's not recommended.


DISCLAIMER: C3G claims no ownership of the characters or artwork used for C3G customs. All rights for the characters belong to their respective publishers/creators. C3G cards are not intended for sale, and C3G does not authorize any party to profit from C3G cards.

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  #19  
Old March 2nd, 2014, 06:49 PM
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Re: The Book of Lurker - Design

However, Zombie Apocalypse can also work as a power exclusive to the Lurkers. I don't expect they're going to be particularly valuable without the other two, but I do want to see what happens when you toss 100-200 points worth into an army on their own as support. Probably not as good as they would be with their zombie buddies but I don't see the harm in asking for a test or two with them in that capacity.
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  #20  
Old March 2nd, 2014, 07:46 PM
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Re: The Book of Lurker - Design

The only harm I see is it's kind of a waste of time .... unless there's something valuable to their final cost to be gained from that exercise that I'm not seeing? There are lots of armies (see above Prof X example) that you can play with sub-optimal armies. But what do you get from doing so?

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DISCLAIMER: C3G claims no ownership of the characters or artwork used for C3G customs. All rights for the characters belong to their respective publishers/creators. C3G cards are not intended for sale, and C3G does not authorize any party to profit from C3G cards.

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  #21  
Old March 2nd, 2014, 07:51 PM
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Re: The Book of Lurker - Design

More data - it never hurts to see how a unit works in different scenarios, ESPECIALLY outside of their ideal armies.

...of course, I could probably squeeze some extra games next week, so I might just do it myself.
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  #22  
Old March 2nd, 2014, 09:11 PM
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Re: The Book of Lurker - Design

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny139 View Post
However, Zombie Apocalypse can also work as a power exclusive to the Lurkers. I don't expect they're going to be particularly valuable without the other two, but I do want to see what happens when you toss 100-200 points worth into an army on their own as support. Probably not as good as they would be with their zombie buddies but I don't see the harm in asking for a test or two with them in that capacity.
I didn't see what you were going for at first, johnny, but I understand this bit and I totally agree. It possible for a unit to have a very strong use outside of their "ideal army" that the original designer didn't foresee. Scattering a few of these guys around the map in key positions would be a worthwhile strategy. It wouldn't hurt to get a couple games of these guys as cheap "obstacles" to mess with your opponent's plans.

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  #23  
Old March 3rd, 2014, 10:01 AM
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Re: The Book of Lurker - Design

Fair enough. I found that four was a nice amount to both keep them spread out enough to ensure the bonus lasted and get in a few "opportunity" strikes. The one thing with them is that they're so weak (1 Life 1 Defense) that if they're in position for first strikes and you lose initiative, you could really waste a lot of points. And with only 2 attack, their first strikes aren't very powerful.

I guess the upside with this strategy (which might be worth exploring and might require us to adjust the Roamer cost upwards) is that having a bunch of them outside of the start zone allows you to leave the start zone entirely up to their ally. So you could spend 24 spaces on Roamers (480 points right now) and put the rest of your points into Lurkers spread around the battlefield and forgo Walkers completely.

That said, that auto wound and auto move the Walkers bring to the table will still make them more valuable than Roamers, IMO, even with Roamers having +1 attack.

We'll definitely want to get as many tests as we can here, though. If you want to jump in with some, that'd be awesome, Johnny!

C3G can be played with official Heroscape, but it's not recommended.


DISCLAIMER: C3G claims no ownership of the characters or artwork used for C3G customs. All rights for the characters belong to their respective publishers/creators. C3G cards are not intended for sale, and C3G does not authorize any party to profit from C3G cards.

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  #24  
Old March 3rd, 2014, 04:29 PM
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Re: The Book of Lurker - Design

I'll wait until Mister Sinister is through (unless folks think I should push on since these guys are due in April), but I'll start the vote for Playtesting at 25 points now.

C3G can be played with official Heroscape, but it's not recommended.


DISCLAIMER: C3G claims no ownership of the characters or artwork used for C3G customs. All rights for the characters belong to their respective publishers/creators. C3G cards are not intended for sale, and C3G does not authorize any party to profit from C3G cards.

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